I spent some time thinking whether to write a reaction to older discussions) about MicroStation SDK availability and recent steps leading to closing of “a world of MicroStation programming”. Originally, I thought about “What is Bentley long term strategy for 3rd party developers” theme, but at the end it seems to be the tangle of problems / issues that is not easy to describe. So, I use this slightly more general and provocative subject and try to express my feelings.
At first, a disclaimer: This post represents my subjective opinion and is based mostly on my experiences (small and mid, typically engineering but also utility, companies) from Czech Republic, and partially also what I heard from my friend from other European countries. Maybe my arguments are not valid for long term complex projects delivered to big asset operators in telco or power distribution and less fragmented markets (European Union represents one from 3 biggest economies in the world but comparing to US and China it’s fragmented to many local markets).
At second, I’d like to apologize for lengthy text.
And at third, I also probably should apologize for black and white and maybe too strict evaluation. I guess a combination of winter depression with a contradiction between MicroStation CONNECT Edition with rich (even no too much documented) API and steps against people who like to use this API. On the other hand I will repeat what other people wrote in other discussions already: Limiting access to SDK and API is another bad Bentley decisions complicating using Bentley products.
Ok, let’s return to my original question: “What is Bentley strategy for 3rd part developers and related ecosystem formed by any extensions from simple macros to complex applications?” I assume there will be an answer like “We have (great) BDN program and we carefully listen and take care about 3rd developers”, but despite of it sounds nice, this is far from reality. And BDN itself is not my focus (I appreciate information provided by Bob, Arthur and YonganFu), because it’s about the development in general.
For many years Bentley have closed MicroStation programming and limiting the access to it step by step. I remember all tools (MDL) were delivered with MicroStation automatically. Later the separate SDK was created, but still accessible to everybody. And last year, it was closed to BDN members only. No information about such change, no information about how to start with development available on web (“ask us” / “fill form” is not information but annoying obstruction).
If I compare it with other solutions, both commercial (AutoCAD, Revit, ArcGIS, Allplan, ArchiCAD…) and open-source l(PostgreSQL + PostGIS, GeoServer, Open Layers): Do you want to develop anything? Download it, it’s simple, just click “Download” button, typically even registration is not required (and when it’s required like in ArchiCAD case, the whole process and requirements are clearly, without marketing fuzzy formulations, described). The route between idea / requirements to dev tools installed and start coding is straightforward and fast.
In my opinion Bentley also failed in teaching developers and motivating new ones. This applies both to the area of education (schools and universities) and existing users. Bentley has close to zero presence in (Czech) schools and I know about plenty of people stopped to try to teach MicroStation or other products simply because it’s so complicated and costly and Bentley don’t care to support them. Especially when compared with so many events, educational programs (often created in Czech language) and competitions organized by local offices, local partners (when no company has office) or local communities sponsored by the company.
And when somebody (a student because of seminary work or dissertation, current user because of company internal requirement or just for joy or manager looking for solution of specific problem) need to develop anything: No chance. Even for existing SELECT users, as was mentioned already in some discussion, to extend agreement to BDN SELECT is not acceptable, because it’s slow (does not allow to start immediately) and requires legal acts (which is tough process often).
What about consequences? As Stuart wrote in the mentioned discussion, he lost his enthusiasm for Bentley products and has resigned to a role of “MicroStation advocate”. What I have seen for last several years at different conferences and talking with customers, is even worse: Bentley, MicroStation or other products are less and less presented there or discussed as the used tools. Bentley products are dismissing from market.
For me long term business strategy is like a table with more legs. When all are durable, and suddenly some breaks, it’s not an emergency. But when more legs are weak, the sensitivity is higher, and stability is low. Using this picture, many table legs are rotten I guess, but moreover the legs related to programming were effectively severed by Bentley itself.
One from “removed leg” is about how to fulfill local specifics and requirements. I assume all software companies are persuaded their software is genius piece and will solve anything and everything. Nothing can be more distant from everyday reality in any project: There are so many local rules, country or industry standards or even company specific procedures that no software is able to handle them all well.
When the software allows to be extended / customized and at the same time there are people capable to do it, the problem is solved. The first condition is solved, MicroStation-based (but also ProjectWise and other software) provides rich API. Great! But … there are lack of people. Bentley are responsible that there are no new ones and if anybody is interested in CAD development, he will probably choose other platform (even simple tasks like preliminary study whether API supports a feature cannot be done, because contrary the others, nothing is available publicly). Bang, first leg crashed and removed.
Because there are no individual and internal developers (of course commercial developers exist), no tools exist. I assume many users will agree there were quite a lot MDL apps available in time of MicroStation 95 or J. Many from them were simple and developed by individual in their spare time, but they were valuable. Today? Just a few. Even Bentley have not been able to migrate own tools available for free (tool library) to CONNECT Edition. The situation is worse because there is no “application central point”. Compare it with other platforms, where plenty of macros, tools, applications are available, often for free and available in different lists. I remember many situations when in community or at conferences some problem was discussed (data import, drawing output generation…) and somebody told “I developed own macro and can share it with you”. No chance for MicroStation. Crack, second leg broken.
Unfortunately, it’s even worse. In Europe Bentley have ignored INSPIRE for many years (for people don’t familiar with INSPIRE, it’s EU directive aiming environmental spatial data, mandatory for all EU countries and all subjects anyhow related to environment and nature protection like utilities, network operators, of course government and cadaster etc.). One from results is that INPISRE data must be published, so they are available to people, usually in OGC formats (Open Geospatial Consortium) like GML or WFS (I think sometimes local formats are used also). After 10 years of existence of INSPIRE, Bentley products are not able to handle these data at all (e.g. WMS-T or WFS in MicroStation) or had reported but not corrected problems (WFS in Bentley Map). What competitors? For last few years, at least in Czech Republic, the problem is solved. Quite often through local developers and in some cases the local solution was good enough that international company don’t develop own one (which I think is great example of possible synergy, where local developers solve the problem how to “act locally”).
Because environmental data is part of literally every engineering project, inaccessibility of INSPIRE data is competitive disadvantage and I know several companies that migrated (or are in such process) from Bentley platform, because to don’t be able to access all necessary data easily is more expensive than the migration itself. Now, very loud crash, another leg broken.
The last consequence relates to the development itself: Because there are no students with MicroStation knowledge, and how to develop application skills are quite low between users (because there are no good resources and it’s impossible to access even API description), the development is more expensive than a development to other platforms. To hire new MicroStation developer means to find general developer and to teach him MicroStation and API. It requires at least a half of the year to work independently and after one year he will be come productive. As I wrote, expensive. To find somebody with e.g. AutoCAD, Sketchup or whatever else knowledge who has at least basic experience with development (e.g. he tried to create a macro as student or as employee) is substantial easier. So, this is 4th leg broken.
Is there any “final question” or conclusion? I am not sure, probably not. It was just about to express my feeling that things get worse and that to have technically above average product is not enough and there are areas where competitors are far more active, open and friendly, which possibly will help them to win in future. History is full of such examples: Microsoft won with Windows over OS2 and other OSs because at this time great VisualC and availability of other dev tools from Borland, recently he failed with Window Phone because bumbling API and developer support. And so many open-source projects survived early stages not because of its their quality, but because of great community providing support, learning materials and documentation, so other developers were interested in to commit and use it.
But maybe it would be enough to only clearly describe on web what Bentley strategy and priorities are and that Bentley decision is to provide access to any API under BDN agreement and for anybody else only VBA is available. But I don’t find any such information.
With regards, a bit depressed,
A good summary, Jan! I have attempted to start a similar thread about Bentley's strategy for the core technology EC Schemas, but it seems to be going nowhere.
Regards, Jon Summers LA Solutions
Jon Summers said:A good summary
thanks! I was unsure whether it make any sense and my wife asked my also why I am investing so many hours to formulate and write text that will have not any result probably. Well, it was something I feel I should do, and maybe because I am naive fool with a sentimental relationship to MicroStation (which I still think is great technically).
Jon Summers said:but it seems to be going nowhere.
And it will be worse, because train with competitors is dissapearing in distance with big lead (not technically, but technical quality is only a part of sales success and users' satisfaction).
BTW As far as I know Bentley office does not exist now in fact, so Bentley resigned to act locally at all (curious on market that in the past represented one from the biggest SELECT coverage). I am not business guy, but when I imagine no local presence, not supported local community, no tools and customization to support local and EU standards, no well Czech localized products (Czech localizations exist, but in some cases probably tools like Google Translate are used, so it's so bad it cannot be used), my expectations are not optimistic.
Bentley Accredited Developer: iTwin Platform - AssociateLabyrinth Technology | dev.notes() | cad.point
good morning janI'm not so good at writing and expressing my ideas as you didbut I fully agree with what you wroteI am not a programmer, I only ventured with MVBA with a lot of effort, because I do not know English, I did simple things for you but for me it was very big. I'm very sorry for how things are going. Congratulations on your exposure you wrote what I thought for a long timeBest regards
thanks for your comment, I appreciate it! :-)
Your text raised another situation, when long term ignoring community of not professional developers (students, hobbyist, for-joy developers, in-house try-to-develop something users...) brings pain: When you (in a role of not English native speaker) need help, there is nobody around, and to find and ask BDN professional developer is I guess pretty complicated.
Centered problemit's just as you saysometimes I do not ask because complicated and I feel very very depressed
As you rightly wroteeverything in Bentley is very convoluted, complicated and unclear
we hope that the springtime will awaken something good
Thank You Jan! Well written.
Treatment users and developers get from Bentley last few years is extremely disappointing.
Last week, I received e-mail with information that company is going back to v8i after testing Connect and SDK for Connect.
Something to think about Bently!
You know my struggle to navigate through the API. The lack of documentation, examples and support slow down and limits all kind of 3rd party development. It's mainly thanks to you Jan (and Jon!) I'm able to advance my projects.
New question coming up in a minute!
Owner consultant at Surell Consulting AB
Thank you Jan for taking the time to express the frustrations a lot of us are feeling.
Rod WingSenior Systems Analyst
[UPDATE - 2018/02/12 - RH: BDN and platform development management have met to start an official action plan on all constructive and helpful feedback gathered in this thread. Sujeet Srivastava (BDN program manager) or I will provide additional regular updates on the action plan, estimated timelines, and progress to help ensure clear facts and status related to these critical and essential items needed is provided. Thank you.]
Hi Jan and all,
I have categorized the broad range of topics and suggestions discussed in this thread and we (internally) will be discussing a number of action items we can certainly commit to. As many of you know our user input and satisfaction is something we take to heart and very seriously at Bentley. Please continue to constructively list your improvement suggestions on this thread as replies. We are working with development to start to schedule and develop as many obtainable items as possible to start addressing your suggestions in a quarterly release/incremental manner. Please allow Sujeet Srivastavaa bit of time for work with development so we can provide with an early update/response on what is most obtainable and value for you and your success with Bentley software and SDKs. FWIW. 2018 does have a lot of new and exciting opportunities both with the existing MicroStation APIs and SDKs, and new SDKs (and visions) to be announced
Thank you all for your extremely valuable feedback, patience, and sincere dedication.
Your BDN Team.
with all respect, I am quite sad with such answer, but in fact I expect something like it, full of fuzzy general comments and promises only.
Robert Hook said:As many of you know our user input and satisfaction is something we take to heart and very seriously at Bentley.
It's embarrassing. In last few years I remember repeating complains about zero tutorials and extremely complicated learning of MicroStation programming. Nothing has changed. Please, go outside from ivory tower and check any web of Bentley competitors or competitive open source solition, this is different space in terms of UX, openess, documentation and quality (and check also how many materials and macros are created by properly supported communities for free). In BDN (which is not topic of this thread!) I remember requests for better community management and communication, but again even the basic things like "who is who in BDN team", regularly updated list of available SDKs (plus maybe highlight what is available with product, what extra and what in BDN only), learning materials (so slow and painful migration to CE is the proof Bentley failed in learning developers) ... I guess nothing was improved. Even BDN newsletter, the only regular source of information, survived just few years and was canceled.
Robert Hook said:We are working with development to start to schedule and develop as many obtainable items as possible to start addressing your suggestions in a quarterly release/incremental manner.
Why do you mention this? Nobody in this thread complained the release scheduling, development etc. The main topic is Bentley made development for MicroStation (and other products) seriously complicated with really limited documentation and learning materials, actively limit access to development tools for people interested in the development and ignoring communities development (which is all the time problem of Bentley). Not surpise so many people prefer to develop on other platforms and there is zero local Bentley presence.
BTW I built and maintained quite a lot of communities, both commercial (partners) and users, in my Bentley carreer and as freelancer (and I am good in it) and this does not depend on anything like "quarterly release". It's about every day presence to people moving to long term aim.
Robert Hook said:Please allow Sujeet Srivastavaa bit of time
Who is this guy? Not any introduction, announcement, not listed in any past "who is who in BDN" discussions, with only one answer in Programming forum and zero in BDN community. I know, communities, even commerical developers, are not worth to receive any notification about change in BDN team. But from Program manager I really expect more.
Robert Hook said:so we can provide with an early update/response on what is most obtainable and value for you and your success with Bentley software and SDKs.
I don't understand this sentence, but maybe something was lost in translation. I am very sure people know what is the value necessary for their success and they expressed it and complained many times in the past. You don't have to provide any update what is the value for us. The only question and (strategic) decision is whether this value is offered by Bentley or by any other company (several my customer told me during last year technically MicroStation or inductry products are fine, but everything else ... support, local customization, tools, standards support, communities ... is worse, so it's cheaper to migrate to competitors ... and it's something I cannot change and just loosing customers one by one.
And back to the original topic, for last few years the value (for developers) is smaller and smaller in the case of Bentley, because for many people it's more and more complicated to start development on top of Bentley platform (consequently zero local macros and tools, expensive and lengthy migration to CONNECT Edition), comparing to well prepared training curve in the case of competitors and open source solutions.
Robert Hook said:FWIW. 2018 does have a lot of new and exciting opportunities both with the existing MicroStation APIs and SDKs, and new SDKs (and visions) to be announced
And who cares? Everybody life is about coding and trying to learn from zero materials, understand limited documentation and explain it to customers or bosses why it takes so long. BTW I was interested in new i-model SDK ... promised, but probably does not exists, no update for last 2 years. Asked about i-model Hub 2.0 access to learn new technologies ... sorry, not enough interesting request. So until there will be anything deliverable with proper documentation (comparable with other available platforms) that can be really used (and not spent hours trying, asking, waiting for response because of missing doc) it's just vague not very trusthworthy information.
Sad and loosing MicroStation optimism,