Stability Issues in RAM Frame

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Karl G — Thu, 01 Jun 2023 02:03:28 GMT

Brad,

When running the integrated DataCheck in RAM Modeler you will see 2 warnings for 2 lateral columns on the Roof level being supported by gravity members on the level below. These columns are marked in the image below, which shows the Roof level as a Reference Layout on the 4th Story Layout below.

In general, this DataCheck warning should not be ignored because the RAM Frame analysis does not consider gravity members in its analysis. The only exception to that rule is that gravity columns and walls supporting two-way decks can be considered when analyzing gravity load cases when an option is invoked in the Criteria - Diaphragm diaphram dialog.

To resolve the problem, you will need to change the gravity beams on the 4th Story that support the two lateral columns on the Roof to frame members. You will also need to change the gravity columns that support that beam to a lateral column at the 4th Story and all layouts below.

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Brad Geyer — Tue, 30 May 2023 20:00:17 GMT

Karl - I've run into a similar issue. After turning off P-delta, It looks like the solution is simply related to meshing because the Dead Load displacement shows huge deflections in an area that has gravity columns. In the gravity columns module, they are being design for gravity loads, so I'm confused how to get this to run properly in Ram Frame. Do you have any thoughts?

I uploaded the file as "RAM Building 5-30-23"

Edit: I changed all the elements supporting the discontinuous roof frame to lateral instead of gravity and the model runs with P-delta on but only if using In-Core direct solver, which takes several minutes for a relatively small building. I feel like something else must be the issue.

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Patrick Westerkamp — Mon, 14 Sep 2020 21:00:22 GMT

I have a similar problem with my model. I tried these recommendations and am still receiving an "Unstable Structure Detected" in RAM Frame. I uploaded my file.

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Max Karr — Mon, 02 Mar 2020 20:16:53 GMT

After going home I believe I figured it out. I forgot to define the strength properties of the roof deck.

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Max Karr — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 23:00:28 GMT

I ran into an issue using a pseudo-flexible diaphragm that I have not encountered before. Every time I would try to run the model in Frame (gravity only no P-Delta) I would get nodal instabilities. The weird thing is it would say the node was unstable in the direction that it's frame should be stable for. Column tops were fixed and beams released with knee braces. I found that I could fix the issue by fixing the minor direction of the beam at that node. After fixing a few it let me run it and gave me warnings about cantilevered beams with unfixed ends, but once I fixed those it went back to just one node at a time. After switching my diaphragm to rigid it ran no problem. My guess is that it's just because the diaphragm is so large and wonky (see attached image, largest portion with C shape and holes). Just curious as to what your thoughts might be.

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Karl G — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:16:58 GMT

The model runs for all loads cases if P-Delta is turned off. However, I see some large deflections associated with local effects of the semirigid diaphragm. See below.

Here are my recommendations:

1. Change the diaphragms on the Tech Mezz Level to Flexible/None diaphragms and set the Exposure in RAM Frame - Loads - Exposure to "None". These diaphragms are small partial diaphragms connected to only a few frame columns and not appear to be subject to wind loading. The mass of these diaphragms has already been combined to a diaphragm on an upper level.

2. In RAM Frame - Criteria - Diaphragm, check the box for including out-of-plane stiffness of semirigid diaphragms with one-way decks. The semi rigid diaphragms have a low flexural stiffness due to a small effective thickness and a relatively low Elastic Modulus. The effect of including the out-of-plane stiffness should be small. However, since the top of the columns are fixed, you may see a small moment transfer between the diaphragms and columns. If this is a concern, you can release moment at the top of the columns that are connected to a semirigid diaphragm.

3. Change the wind and seismic load cases to use specified frequencies and periods instead of calculated values. The P-Delta associated instability is closely tied to the Eigen Analysis used to determine these values. The Eigen Analysis is not completed if the frequencies and periods in each direction are specified. You can either use specified values from an analysis run without P-Delta or use a frequency of 1 Hz for wind load (rigid structure equations used) and T= Ta for seismic load.

4. Change the solver type in RAM Frame - Criteria - Analysis to the In-Core Direct Solver. The direct solver is more rigorous than the sparse solver and the more rigorous solution method will help bypass the error.

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Josh Randall — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 21:26:04 GMT

File name is PAC rev1.rss

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Karl G — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 21:15:07 GMT

Josh, please share your model using the Secure File Upload link below and then post the file name here. We will review and get back to you soon.

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Josh Randall — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:28:27 GMT

I tried fixing all column bases to see if that would help and the same errors keep occuring. The most common error I've been getting is the one in the pictures attached, which is for a node in a frame column at a small partial level where nothing is framing into it.

communities.bentley.com/.../Instability-Error.png

communities.bentley.com/.../Instability-Error-2.png

RE: Stability Issues in RAM Frame

Karl G — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 19:36:07 GMT

There is an option in RAM Frame to exclude the BRBF's when analyzing the gravity load cases (Criteria - General). If the column bases and beam ends are pinned and there are no shear walls, this will result in no lateral stiffness and result in an instability when attempting to analyze those load cases. A similar problem occurs for tension-only members, which are also excluded when analyzing gravity load cases.

The frequently asked question, "Why am I getting large deflections under gravity loads?" on the web page below discusses this and some suggestions for avoiding the instability:

http://communities.bentley.com/Products/Structural/Structural_Analysis___Design/w/Structural_Analysis_and_Design__Wiki/ramss-tension-only-faq

Please post back if this does not apply to your model or if you follow the suggestions and continue to see the error.