Trying to make sense of building custom Civil Cells

Hello,

I'm involved with transitioning to 3D modeling at my workplace which requires converting our 2D libraries to 3D.  I've watched a few tutorials on working with OpenRoads / Civil Cells in Microstation, but there's several questions that I still have and am hoping there's perhaps some good tutorials / overviews that maybe I've missed.

I admit I know very little at this stage - I'm trying to get myself acclimated to how Microstation does 3D visualization before I get involved in this project in a couple of weeks.  I should also mention that  I come from a 3D modelling background, but it's using 3D mesh tools like Blender, which are designed for creating photorealisitc arch-viz, video game assets, movies, etc.  Microstation's idea of 3D modeling is substantially (but not entirely) different.

So far, Microstation's accudraw tool makes a lot of sense, but I don't see it being used much in designing Civil Cells apart from building simple 2D structures.  What I'm trying to get at is how to make complex 3D structures that can be made resuable as civil cells, beyond the rather simple approach that is taken to create intersections and roadway geometries.  That is, suppose I want to build drainage structure cells, like standard box culvert, wingwall, and toewall designs we use.  Or perhaps I want to create lighting structure cells.  I can imagine ways that could be done using the paradigms that are employed in building civil cells, but I've seen nothing on building anything other than pavement surfaces.

I presume I've got some wrong-headed ideas about how these things work, so I'd greatly appreciate pointers or links to maybe more advanced tutorials in building custom 3D civil cells.

  • Have you looked into the Solids Modeling and Surface Modeling tools within Microstation. These are very useful tools and will require some training or experimentation to use them. I have seen bridge designers use these tools for designing bridge footings, abutments and wingwalls. I supposed you could use them for drainage structures as well.

    The only drawback that I have found (please correct me if I am wrong) that you cannot use them in InRoads to display on sections or profiles. You would need to create DTM's from them. Since InRoads does not support vertical faces in the triangulation world, this task is not possible.

    However, this can be very useful for using them in details in Microstation with automatic dimensioning. Whereas when the solid changes in length or width the dimensions will update as well. 

    I have just started to use Openroads and have only made Driveway Civil Cells and Intersection Civil Cells.

    Good Luck

    HTH,

    Joe

    Joe Lukovits

    User Since TDP in the 80's,

    Vax based Unix Workstations - Interpro32,

    from the Intergraph Corp.

     

     

  • Joe,

    Thanks for the tips. At the moment, I don't have any Microstation software available, so I can't really acclimate myself to the specific packages as yet. After viewing several dozen tutorials, however, I've come to understand the general process of building civil cells. Unfortunately, I don't see how the Solids / Surface Modeling tools can be used in conjunction with Civil Cells.

    With regards to Civil Cells, I get the impression that custom underground structures like box culverts might be modeled using template features (in the same way curb and gutter is modeled). And I can see how to set reference lines to orient the culvert orthogonal or at a fixed angle to the roadway. A tutorial on how to create ditches gives me an idea on how to generate a trench, but other things, like setting the top of the culvert to be a minimum depth below the bottom of the subgrade, adjusting wall thickness based on culvert size / depth, etc. seems a bit undefined for me.

    It seems to me complex structures with dimensions and properties that are tied to it's size, depth, and position / orientation to the roadway should be controlled by the rules that define Civil Cells, but at this point, I'm not entirely sure the level of control that I would like is really available.

    Anyway, I suspect that I will have to some how cobble together these sorts of assets using the three types of Civil Cell features...
  • but other things, like setting the top of the culvert to be a minimum depth below the bottom of the subgrade, adjusting wall thickness based on culvert size / depth, etc. seems a bit undefined for me.

     


    Joel, In response to the above comment, you can create components in your templates to create ditches with materials or thicknesses. You wouldn't need to use Civil Cells to use them. Then by setting some constraints on your point components (or display rules) you can get your results that you are looking for.

    Case in point, I need to model retaining walls in my model. After drawing the wall with a footing in Microstation you can import the wall into your template library to create an component. Then with attaching an end condition to the wall on the outside or inside, I set the wall to solve with constraining the footing to always be 5' below the existing ground.

    As Inroads models the wall the footing meets the end condition requirements for you.

    You may be getting the wrong idea about civil cells and their uses. Try using components in your templates to get better results.

    Joe Lukovits

    User Since TDP in the 80's,

    Vax based Unix Workstations - Interpro32,

    from the Intergraph Corp.

     

     

  • One other comment. I used this method in openroads SS3 and was able to "connect" an jersey barrier from template drop to template drop. Then I used the drive roadway command in a rendered view. It looked great!.

    Joe Lukovits

    User Since TDP in the 80's,

    Vax based Unix Workstations - Interpro32,

    from the Intergraph Corp.

     

     

  • Joe,

    I think I have to get hands on before I can really think much more about this, but so far as we've discussed, it seems we should be able to build civil cells that implement our design standards without too much effort. Your footing example certainly helps illustrate that - that's the sort of thing I was interested in to begin with.

    Thanks for the help.

    Joel