How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 19:51:14 GMT

Dawn, this is a tricky one to answer in a short post since there are a number of factors that enter into this. In order to draw a component on a cross section all of the Features of that Component have to be 'sliced' through. If you go to Component Properties, select a Component and then List, you'll see that a Component is tied to not only the alignment or path that it was created along, but it also consists of a specific number of Members. If the alignment or Members aren't available where you cut a section then you'll get no Component display because InRoads doesn't know how to construct it. It's not that it's having 'trouble', it's just that in order to display something all of the information that is needed to create the display has to be there ...at that particular section. The DTM is not really that 'independent' when it comes to a surface created from the Roadway Designer and the Components are developed. It needs that alignment in the ALG so it can reconstruct the Component relationships and draw it. It gets even more complicated when you are using Secondary Alignments, since the DTM doesn't store any of that information in it at all. I know this is just a bunch of words (sorry no graphics) ... but each one of these display 'issues' has to be looked at on a case by case basis considering the 'needs' that InRoads has to have in order to display a Component in Plan or Cross Section.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Dawn Michel — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 18:41:46 GMT

The orange us existing ground. The section is cut along mainline. Mainline structure is shown, but the side street structure is not showing up correctly. It is just showing as text (named the radii corridor name and station)

I have point controls set for the top surface. the lower surfaces are set from the top, so I don't think that is an issue. I'm curious as to how the surface looks good, but the section isn't cut as expected. Someone else in the office said they have trouble with sections cut from one centerline that were created from another centerline. I thought the surfaces were more independent than that.

The red line is a snapshot of where the section was cut. It is skewed, but the perpendicular ones have the same issue.

The 3d view looks good (I have the aggregate turned off below, but it looks good when I rotate the model)

Thanks for your help.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 17:08:47 GMT

Dawn, I'm not sure what I'm seeing here. Is this a cross section cut along the "main road"? Is the orange line the 'surface', or are those all Components? I'm trying to put this cross section into some orientation to the plan views that you've posted earlier. I'm just speculating here, but it could be that the substrata components are not constrained to the upper level component that was attached to the Point Control, and then those sub-components didn't follow the upper component. ...but I'm just guessing without knowing where this section really is.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Dawn Michel — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 16:17:48 GMT

ok. now my looks "perfect", but the cross sections don't plot correctly. The side street linework doesn't plot. Am I missing something? Is there a workaround for this?

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Joe Lukovits — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 16:48:02 GMT

In the Centerline I assume?. Oops I missed that one, thanks for pointing that out. Must have been the vertical chord from displaying the 3d alignment and then importing the line as a breakline?.....My guess?

Getting the perfect model has always been an issue. But in this case the DTM was given to the contractor and there were no issues unless there was one and was fixed in the field office.

Sorry about your Dodgers and my Red Sox!!..........I guess I have to pull for the Cubbies....

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 15:56:50 GMT

Hi Joe! ... that won't solve Dawn's issue. In fact your DTM has the same issue as her's ... inappropriate triangulation.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Joe Lukovits — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 15:09:25 GMT

I think you may want to look into a powerful tool which InRoads SS2 has, Not sure if Geopak does. But the above model that I created utilized a command called "Divide Feature". After all of my breaklines were developed, I applied this tool to all of my breaklines in the model. This was created in Metric and I believe I used a .3m interval. The command analyzes the vertices of the breaklines. Then it "divides" the breakline by the interval you give it. If all breaklines are divided equally the above results are achieved.

HTH,

Joe

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 19:34:08 GMT

Awesome!

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Dawn Michel — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 19:26:53 GMT

Thank you very much. That was exactly it!

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 19:18:53 GMT

Dawn, it doesn't look like you are creating Transverse Features in your DTM, that's what the triangulation isn't forming correctly. Do you see the option to toggle on Transverse Features on the Create Surface dialog box in the Roadway Designer? That needs to be turned on in order for the triangulation to connect properly in this instance. This snapshot is from InRoads so it might not look just like yours.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Dawn Michel — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 18:42:29 GMT

Yes, the blue/green lines are created with "features and components" from roadway designer. (roadway versus grass) I don't know if they are created as breaklines. I don't see anywhere to check, other than possibly the "exclude from triangulation", which is off.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 15:12:45 GMT

Are the blue lines the Transverse Features from the Roadway Designer? Can you confirm that they are defined as Breaklines in the surface generated from the Roadway Designer Create Surface tool? The triangulation shouldn't cross those lines if they are breaklines. The same goes for the green lines on the inside of the return. I'm not familiar with GEOPAK (I'm and "InRoads guy") but when InRoads creates Transverse Features they are automatically assigned as Breaklines.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Dawn Michel — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:11:48 GMT

Thank you. I appreciate the help. I wasn't seeing the media icon.

Full intersection ran as a combined surface:

quadrant created as a single surface.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 02:35:50 GMT

Go to the Advanced Reply Editor...

Then Insert / Edit Media...

Browse and then Insert after it is selected.

Repeat as needed.

Then Post.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Dawn Michel — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 00:13:35 GMT

My attachments didn't post. Can you remind me how to post them?

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Dawn Michel — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 00:12:33 GMT

I think this will show you what you're asking for.Yes, I have the H & V alignment and 2 point controls to target both horizontal and vertical. Interval is 2'. Cross sections show the error.

This shows the single surface.

This shows all three corridors created as a single surface.

Thanks for your help.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 23:18:11 GMT

Can you show a planimetric picture of what the triangle results of the Quadrant modelling looks like by itself? ...but in the Roadway Designer you have an H & V alignment for the Quadrant path, a single template (at what Interval?), and 2 Point Controls, right? Do the Cross Sections in the Roadway Designer look correct?

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Dawn Michel — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 23:09:42 GMT

I am using Geopak - 08.11.07.621 (We can't upgrade because the DOT requires this version.)

When I run a single corridor it still has the same issue.

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 23:04:56 GMT

Dawn, if you run an individual quadrant by itself, does it look okay, or not? (I noticed from an earlier post that you are using GEOPAK SS2.)

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

The Zen Dude — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 22:54:02 GMT

What software and version are you using?

RE: How to control triangle length when creating a surface in roadway designer - Intersection design

Derek Schmidt — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 21:28:12 GMT

It may be element stroking. You should be able to get to it from element information after selecting the fillet (or whatever curve). I assume the fillet is what you mean by "intersection" in "the center of the intersection" and your later mention of "an individual quadrant".

Stroking indicates the interval along the length at which a new 3D point is established. (Stroking of 2 in a file using feet would construct a 3D point along that line every 2 feet.) In that one quadrant it may be too long or even 0.

It may be an issue of whether it's a break line or boundary, etc. I'm not sure about this, but it might be worth a look, though it's probably already exactly what it needs to be.