Hand-editing Cross Sections and pushing changes back to Design?

I have a number of manual changes to make to my cross sections. These are isolated, one-off items that are driven by Engineer's opinion than by reproducible programmatic logic. Things like "why don't we just tie to existing ground at that one section" or "we don't need a ditch, but could you show some grading so it will drain right in there".

As small as these items are, I want these changes reflected in my construction limits (proposed surface boundary) and, if possible, in my proposed surface. Is there a way to "push" hand edits back to my design surface?

Also, I need to run end area/volumes for my earthwork computations. Do those run by cross sections, or are they from model to model? Will they calculate along the top of my design, or will it find my components and include/exclude those volumes as appropriate? All the more reason to make sure that my hand-edits can be pushed back to design...

Thank you.

Parents
  • In SS2 and SS4 you can edit a single station template. Doing so you are working on a single station and in the template view and design is updated accordingly.
    Another way is to edit features in SS2, but unfortunately you can override the changes if you run the corridor in the same zone.
    In SS4 you can control points using linear geometry and change the linear geometry, but it is not like changing the template: you don't work on a cross section view (you can also do this in SS2 with feature). In SS2 changing the feature also change the component.
    In SS4 it is much more easier also to mix design using corridor and other methods (linear geometry, surface templates, linear templates), you may find an appropriate workflow.
    But as said at the beginning, you can edit a single station. In SS2 by a double click on the cross section view of the Roadway Designer, in SS4 by using the "edit station" from the cross section tools in the corridor modelling task.



Reply
  • In SS2 and SS4 you can edit a single station template. Doing so you are working on a single station and in the template view and design is updated accordingly.
    Another way is to edit features in SS2, but unfortunately you can override the changes if you run the corridor in the same zone.
    In SS4 you can control points using linear geometry and change the linear geometry, but it is not like changing the template: you don't work on a cross section view (you can also do this in SS2 with feature). In SS2 changing the feature also change the component.
    In SS4 it is much more easier also to mix design using corridor and other methods (linear geometry, surface templates, linear templates), you may find an appropriate workflow.
    But as said at the beginning, you can edit a single station. In SS2 by a double click on the cross section view of the Roadway Designer, in SS4 by using the "edit station" from the cross section tools in the corridor modelling task.



Children
  • I would NEVER edit the Roadway Designer Template drop!..........No good can from it. Trust me, I got burned by it in the past and will never do it again.

    From what I understand the drop is edited in the designer and any further changes to the Horizontal, Vertical, Super, Templates changes, ETC ETC as well as parametric constraints, H&V controls will no longer be supported. Please correct me if I am wrong here.

    This utility was put in by Bentley to support FINAL changes to your roadway just before you would submit FINAL plans.

    HTH,

    Joe Lukovits

    User Since TDP in the 80's,

    Vax based Unix Workstations - Interpro32,

    from the Intergraph Corp.

     

     

  • Editing in the Roadway Designer has its place, and is a very powerful form of editing that can produce results like no other editing. But you just have to FULLY understand the implications. Just because a lack of understanding in the past had caused a problem is no reason to avoid functionality in the future.
     
    Civilly yours,
    The Zen Dude (also known as "Mark")
    Civil Software Guru & Philosopher
    InRoads User since its birth in the 80's
    OpenRoads Documentation / Training / Support
    Zen Engineering, Owner
  • Thanks Mark, you are correct....

    It is a powerful and useful tool but users should use caution when using this utility. Users must be aware of the impacts involved when using this. This was meant to be a utility to perform a "fix" as a final change to the surface model before submission.

    There are other tools that SS2 has to perform making changes without editing the template drop in the designer. I use End Condition Exceptions, H&V Controls and Parametric Constraints or Display Rules. I use these tools regularly and with a little education of these tools I have found them to be user friendly and very powerful.

    Regards,

    Joe Lukovits

    User Since TDP in the 80's,

    Vax based Unix Workstations - Interpro32,

    from the Intergraph Corp.

     

     

  • In Ss2, I sometimes use the Surface Editing tools to generate minor adjustments.

    • Edit Feature Point (my "go to" tool for terrain edits)
    • Generate Transverse Feature -- creates a surface between two CAD elements.
    • Generate Longitudinal Feature -- copies graphics by controlling horizontal and vertical offsets.
    • Set Slope Along Feature – modifies a feature by enforcing a specified slope along the feature.
    • Drape Surface – drapes a feature or graphic element to a surface to that the points in the feature or element take on elevations derived from the surface triangles.
    • Generate Sloped Surface – creates slopes between an original and a design surface.
    • Partial Delete – deletes a portion of a feature. The portion to delete is identified graphically.

    I might use two or three of these to modify or cleanup an area where the template approach doesn't quite work. If they are saved to their own surface, you can even rerun the corridor and import them back in (Copy Portion of Surface or Merge Surface). The Partial Delete can be used to open a large gap in a feature in a more efficient manner than the Edit Feature Point tool can accomplish the same thing.

    The Edit Feature Point tool is one I really will miss once the InRoads tools go away. GRRRR!


    Charles (Chuck) Rheault
    CADD Manager

    MDOT State Highway Administration

    • MicroStation user since IGDS, InRoads user since TDP.
    • AutoCAD, Land Desktop and Civil 3D, off and on since 1996
  • You are right that it is the last thing to do when everything else failed. As many answered, there are several other ways to amend the design.

    As a sketch, levels of editing are:

    1. Template library
    2. Template in Roadway Designer (or corridor)
    3. End condition exceptions
    4. Point controls, parametric constraints, curve widening
    5. Single template drop, features created by Roadway Designer

    Everything done in 5. is potentially dangerous because manual editing (breaks rules), can be lost if corridor is re processed. But in some cases it is the only way to get the expected result.