OpenRoads Designer
When creating sheets from named boundaries the software automatically creates a drawing model then a sheet model from the named boundary. This workflow seems to work well and is pretty straight forward. The problem I have ran into is the fact the drawing model references are rotated and sometimes moved. So the world coordinates in the drawing model don't match the design model. If I where to identify a coordinate value or bearing without using the "OpenRoads label tools" they would be incorrect. Where do we label or annotate world coordinates and bearings? I would prefer to do it in the drawing model. Is there a setting or workflow to keep the drawing model references scale 1:1 , xy=0,0 and rotation 0 degrees?
Hi Zane,
All annotation should be done within the Drawing Model. Are you wanting to annotate civil elements with their coordinates? You will have to create a Text Favorite for this, then add it to an annotation group. Here's an example video of how to do this: https://communities.bentley.com/products/road___site_design/w/road_and_site_design__wiki/34981/video-editing-the-station-format-of-a-horizontal-alignment-s-annotation
Holly
For more information about the Road and Site design tools, visit the Road and Site design WIKI at: http://communities.bentley.com/products/road___site_design/w/road_and_site_design__wiki
My concern is that the references in the drawing model are moved and rotated, so the coordinates are incorrect. This is very scary. I can only annotate coordinates and bearings with text favorites? How do a verify the coordinates and bearings from the text favorites are correct?
The annotation comes from properties from the design model. The Drawing model has the design model referenced to it. So when annotation occurs, it takes the information from the design model. You can verify that they are correct by annotating in the drawing model, then checking to make sure the coordinates match when you snap to the point within the design model.
After watching videos etc.. I expected the drawing models to be 1:1 and not moved or rotated. This would allow for normal annotation and sheet production techniques to be used. I would definitely recommend Bentley look at changing the drawing model workflow. Once people start using the software and realize the drawing models have incorrect coordinate values associated to them, they will be concerned.
FYI,
Civil projects rely heavily on coordinate data x,y,z. Many Microstation users may not know how to create text favorites or annotation groups etc... also, they may not have the admin rights to do so. Users rely on the coordinate data in drawings to annotate the sheets. With the references in the drawing model rotated or moved I am concerned this will create problems, giving users incorrect coordinate or bearing values.
Every designer, cad operator, drafter would expect Drawing Model to be design model 1:1 with the original coordinate system. This is natural workflow. And I believe it was advised by Bentley since Drawing models were introduced.
We annotate not only civil geometry, and not only civil objects are put on drawings. Usually, we have topo survey there, other discipline drawings coming from different cad platforms.What if I want to annotate XYZ of a corner of existing retaining wall drawn with AutoCad? What tool would I use to annotate XYZ od such non-civil element in a drawing model?
I've just started with drawing production tools in ORD, and if this is true that drawing model are not in correct coordinates and we can only use text fav to annotate correctly, ... I would be really concerned. Will investigate this deeper and post an update here soon.
I fully agree with Zane, Civil Projects rely on XYZ, and believe me OpneRoads models with its geometry and capabilities are only a portion of designs we develop, just a single discipline. We have other stuff in our drawings, not only the OpenRoads Elements, we have full context: existing topo, other proposed infrastructure elements, etc.
We always attach design models to drawings models with no rotation, scale change or movement - coincident method (in most cases drawings are stored in other files than dgn with design model), we annotate elements depending on scale and purpose of the drawing. Then we create sheets. We keep original coordinates as long as possible.
Text favorites are not the cure for everything:
-technology seems to be not fully matured (how to manage, group, update or share text fav??? I just started with annotation tools and my list of text fav is pretty long, and the list window is very small..)
-can not use the same text fav for OpenRoads and Not Openroads elements, eg, XYZ in Plan, or STA EL in profile (sometimes we dont even annotate exact element, just need XYZ or STA annotated just in not-populated area, like approx. valuie)
-when annotation need to be changed, eg station format, accuracy - I noticed we can use []active setting for some OpenRoad related text favs, but for some reason it does not work for me
Adam,
Thanks for the reply. The more I use OpenRoads Designer the more I am concerned about this issue. I have worked on many large scale projects, including Mines, Landfills, and Energy facilities that were designed using InRoads and Microstation/Autocad. These projects rely primarily on xyz data. Alignments, corridors, terrains etc... may not even be associated to many of the civil drawings. So being able to annotate the native xyz and bearing data is critical to drawing production. Also, on these projects non civil drafters/designers are using the civil drawings. In my opinion anyone should be able to get into a civil drawing and snap to an element and pull the correct xy or xyz data. Creating a drawing model that moves and rotates the reference files is confusing and could even be a liability for engineers.
I filed Defect 803213: Drawing Model coordinates do not match Design Model coordinates. As of now, with OpenRoads Designer (ORD) v10.02.00.60 or earlier, the Drawing Model rotates the Design Model planar to the x,y axis if creating a plan sheet. This only really affects the tools Label Coordinates and Label Element. They label the coordinate values associated with the existing model. If there are other tools this affects that I have not listed, please let me know. It does not affect annotation tools such as any of the Text tools. These tools can annotate using the Insert Field command that annotate according to an element’s property, whether the element is a civil element or not. They will display the coordinate values from the Design Model.
I recommend annotating using Civil tools, and not tools that hold no intelligence like the Label Coordinates or Label Element. The recommended workflow is to use Annotation Groups to group together multiple Annotation Definitions to annotate elements. For example, you could have an Annotation Group that has an Annotation Definition to add tick marks, a definition to annotate PIs that was generated from a Text Favorite, and a definition to annotate stationing every 100 units. The Feature Definitions can be set up to point to a specific Annotation Group that will annotate all of that at once.
If you have a random annotation that you need within a Drawing Model, use the Place Text tool to do this. You can utilize the Insert Field button to choose that you want X,Y,Z coordinates to annotate on a specific element. This can be used to replace the Label Coordinates or Label Element field. You don’t necessarily have to set up a Text Favorite unless you will use it often, and want to save it. If you are specifically wanting to use Label Coordinates or Label Element, you will want to use them in the Design Model, not the Drawing Model to get the correct coordinates
We have learning paths that teach how to set up Annotation Groups: http://learn.bentley.com/app/Public/ViewLearningPathDetails?lpId=111346. It will be the OpenRoads Designer Workspace Setup: Step 5 – Annotation and the OpenRoads Designer Workspace Setup: Step 6 - Survey Annotation. I highly recommend walking through these videos to understand how Annotation Groups and Text Favorites operate.
If there is a specific type of annotation that you cannot figure out how to reproduce with the civil tools, please let me know. Tell me which tool you are currently using to annotate, and how it isn’t functioning how you would like for it to. I will help you to get the annotation that you are looking for.