Geopak - duplicating a model

Defining "best" is difficult since every project is different.  But from what you have told me I would do the folowing:

1. You have a model with various objects.  I'll call it Model A
2. Now create a new model Model B
3. Open Model B for edit. 
4. Set the same existing ground and base object for Model B
5. On the right of FIFO list there is a button to add objects by name.  Add as many of the existing objects that are common between Model A and Model B.
6. Now create any new objects that represent what is different in Model B
7. Repeat steps 2-6 for as many alternates as you need.
8. The result is that you have many models, some objects appear in some models but not others   Likewise some elements might be shared in multiple objects.

Defining "best" is difficult since every project is different.  But from what you have told me I would do the folowing:

1. You have a model with various objects.  I'll call it Model A
2. Now create a new model Model B
3. Open Model B for edit. 
4. Set the same existing ground and base object for Model B
5. On the right of FIFO list there is a button to add objects by name.  Add as many of the existing objects that are common between Model A and Model B.
6. Now create any new objects that represent what is different in Model B
7. Repeat steps 2-6 for as many alternates as you need.
8. The result is that you have many models, some objects appear in some models but not others   Likewise some elements might be shared in multiple objects.

The big drawback about this workflow Robert is that we have to add new levels for every design scenario. For example if we want to look at new pond configurations or road designs or grading scenarios we have to create new levels for each version, Pond1, pond2  road1, road 2, curb1, curb2, sidewalk1, sidewalk2, wall1, wall2 and so on. It can really get out of hand, especially if the elements are driven from D&C manager which is not well suited full multiple level schemes like this. If it could be done, a cleaner approach would be to put each design scenario into a seperate model within the DGN. That way there would be no need to create the extra layers. While I have experimented with the multiple model idea I haven't gone far enough to know what the issues might be. Could you provide some insight as to what problems you forsee with that approach?

Neil, your concerns about multiple graphics is one of the reasons that I stated that it is difficult to determine a "best" workflow.  There are some possibilities to alleviate the duplciate graphics if they are bothersome.

• You have mentioned the multiple DGN model idea in other threads in the past and it is intriguing.  I have no idea how it will work but suspect problems because the GSF is intimately tied to a specific graphic element in most cases.  It might work, but you would need to be very careful when editing.  For example, if you forgot and editing Pond A while in the POndB model it might cause a problem.  I'm guessing really.
• One could make duplicates of the DGN and GSF and rename the duplicates.  You will get a warning about the changed DGN file name but this should work once the new name is associated to the GSF.  The problem here is that if you go back and change the first alternate stuff, it will not appear in the second alternates.
• It would not be too difficult to make duplicate features in the DDB specifically for working on alternates.  Some work on the front end but pretty simple once setup.  What you would do is:
  •  
    •  create duplicates for the features where alternates are common.  For example, PondA, PondB, POndC
    • Create the needed levels in your seed file for the duplicates, Again, POndA, PondB PondC
    • Then the alternates would segreate to various DGN levels automatically.

The scenario of using different DGN Models for the graphical elements with different Modeler Objects is fine. When Modeler looks for Elements in a DGN it doesn't care what DGN Model the elements are in. It only looks for the element ID and every element ID is unique within a DGN. So... what you have hypothesized is possible.

BUT... Only one DGN Model can be active and any time. So if you get into the situation where you have 2 or more Modeler Models and those Models are using Elements/Objects from different DGN Models... editing the graphics will become a interesting exercise.

As Robert opened with - there is no single answer.

The option Robert offered is very valid.

The option that Pete tried initially should work as well. I wouldn't use "save as". I'd simply copy each file (the DGN and the GSF) and then rename them both. When opening the copied project, answer "yes" to the synchronize message and then save the project. Then begin the modifications.

No.

I just tried a couple of scenarios and neither works.

There is nothing theoretically stopping us allowing this - its simply a scenario that was never available prior to V8i nor contemplated in enough depth.

Something to add to the enhancement list :-)