ORD Terrain Model TRUE offset

Hello, 

It would be very beneficial when designing channels(lining channels with riprap etc.) or in a similar fashion milling/ overlaying a roadway to be able to make a TRUE offset of that surface. I understand there are templates to do milling and overlay but when you get a complicated surface(like a scour hole depression in a channel) it does not like it. Pushing a clean cut template is not the solution for these type of designs when the design/proposed surface is iterative. 

I understand there was the transform surface command in SS2 but this lifts the surface in the Z direction only and so quantities are not correct because it is not a true offset. There needs to be functionality to offset a surface where the triangles are allowed to grow or shrink such that cross sections can be cut and the perpendicular measure tool (minimum or maximum) measures a consistent thickness throughout. Is this what surface templates are designed for in ORD?

if this cannot be completed another option is to add a tool in the vertical geometry or profile tools to offset the active profile just like the standard microstation graphics offset tool delivered for years. Then you could create a profile of existing ground or any surface in the profile view. Then the offset tool could be used to offset the profile for the new desired profile. Then, set it active and have it draw it in 3D. While it may be tedious this could be done at small intervals and then a terrain could be created from the new TRUE offset graphics. Mission accomplished I now a true offset surface.

There are other reasons this would be powerful. Designers often need to be able to offset a line draped to a surface in the Z direction.

Any help would be appreciated.

Parents
  • I have ran into this issue on large landfill projects before.  Some clients not familiar with civil construction assume offsets of materials are built perpendicular to the slope.  Materials are normally designed and placed in the field vertically (Z direction) from one another.  FYI, When placing materials perpendicular to the slope, every slope will has a different depth.  1:6 slopes have a different material depth then 1:3. This can cause major issues.  How do you calc quanities? How do the check points and grades? How do you verify surfaces with AMG?

    Trust me , I have designed landfills this way with 7 layers of materials.  It is a major undertaking.   Every point or breakline on every material layer must be calculated differently because of the varying depths.  Slope intersections are even more difficult.  You do realize after designing slopes with this method why the norm is to offset surfaces vertical in the Z direction.  On the last project I worked on we ended up convincing the project administrators of the construction problems with offsetting materials perpendicular and we able to design material layers normally.  Much easier project to design and construct.

    Please be careful with what you request.  A feature like this could cause a lot of problems and confusion for folks.

  • "Materials are normally designed and placed in the field vertically (Z direction) from one another.  FYI, When placing materials perpendicular to the slope, every slope will has a different depth.  1:6 slopes have a different material depth then 1:3" Not correct.

    This is true when you lift the surface in Z-direction not a TRUE offset. The question is: How do you calculate quantities? Transforming a surface in the z direction on slopes results in varying thicknesses. This is not conducive to accurate quantities.

    I respectfully think you are misunderstood. Also, it seems the scope of your project is different from the one I mentioned. We need this functionality added when lining channels or scour holes.

    It is not acceptable that functionality would not be added to the software over one companies preference vs. the other. Companies can specify does and don't in its workflows. Additionally, engineers and technicians are responsible for the way they model each design.

    This functionality needs to be added to the software.

     

  • Why don't you just create your channel lining Component using the Angle Distance Constraint to define the perpendicular depth?

     
    Civilly yours,
    The Zen Dude (also known as "Mark")
    Civil Software Guru & Philosopher
    InRoads User since its birth in the 80's
    OpenRoads Documentation / Training / Support
    Zen Engineering, Owner
  • Tyler,

    If you need an parallel offset terrain for your design that is great.  For now, the civil software packages don't seem to have that capability.  You may be able to accomplish this is by modeling your design with a template component in a corridor.  You also may try using the Microstation mesh tools to offset the terrain.  Probably will need to drop the terrain to a mesh first.

    Survey measurements in the field are on the horizontal and vertical plane X,Y,Z.    i.e.,  If 2' of RipRap were to be place on a 3:1 slope.  In the field, the surveyor would stake the RipRap 2' vertically above the finish slope.  If the RipRap was dimensioned at a 2' offset from the slope, the RipRap would be staked at 2.1' above the finish slope.  In the field, materials are staked at a vertical Z depth.  This is why the software only allows for a vertical offsets of terrains.   Not sure why you are getting varying thicknesses when you offset vertically. 

    Here are several ways to offset a terrain vertically (Z direction) in OpenRoads. 

    • Transform the terrain with a Z Delta value. 
    • Create a Surface Template from a terrain.
    • Copy and Offset vertically all breaklines and points then re-triangulate elements in a new surface.
    • Create a corridor and use a template component to create an offset terrain.
    • Use the overlay and milling feature in the corridor tools
Reply
  • Tyler,

    If you need an parallel offset terrain for your design that is great.  For now, the civil software packages don't seem to have that capability.  You may be able to accomplish this is by modeling your design with a template component in a corridor.  You also may try using the Microstation mesh tools to offset the terrain.  Probably will need to drop the terrain to a mesh first.

    Survey measurements in the field are on the horizontal and vertical plane X,Y,Z.    i.e.,  If 2' of RipRap were to be place on a 3:1 slope.  In the field, the surveyor would stake the RipRap 2' vertically above the finish slope.  If the RipRap was dimensioned at a 2' offset from the slope, the RipRap would be staked at 2.1' above the finish slope.  In the field, materials are staked at a vertical Z depth.  This is why the software only allows for a vertical offsets of terrains.   Not sure why you are getting varying thicknesses when you offset vertically. 

    Here are several ways to offset a terrain vertically (Z direction) in OpenRoads. 

    • Transform the terrain with a Z Delta value. 
    • Create a Surface Template from a terrain.
    • Copy and Offset vertically all breaklines and points then re-triangulate elements in a new surface.
    • Create a corridor and use a template component to create an offset terrain.
    • Use the overlay and milling feature in the corridor tools
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