Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Ken Crawford — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 23:21:33 GMT

So, I managed to stumble my way into creating points and getting them onto a surface. That part worked ok, if slightly hidden in the workflows. What I was needing was to drape the points on a surface (worked for the first instance), then re–drape them onto two other surfaces (the "MODIFY POINTS" command would NOT reset them to a different surface no matter what I tried!). Turns out that I had to "MODIFY POINTS" by method of "VALUE" and set them all to a particular elevation (didn't matter what value), and THEN I could "MODIFY POINTS" by method of "SURFACE/MESH" and it would reset them to the alternate surface.

Seems like once they were set to one surface, then "MODIFY POINTS" would not modify to the alternate surface without the intervening "VALUE" modification first. Plus, there were no messages indicating that they weren't going to change unless I did that step. I would request a fix to this behavior, or at least some documentation that you have to "UN–MODIFY" the points that have been associated to a surface before they will switch to the alternate surface.

What a journey . . .

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Ken Crawford — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:45:01 GMT

Certainly true as to what I needed. But getting back to the original question as an aside worth chasing down . . . shouldn't it be a fairly common surveying practice to set a bunch of COGO points to a new surface to derive a new set of elevations? This is usually how we compute stakeout points, by taking what were either 2D or previous Existing Ground 3D points and elevating them to a final grade surface so we can establish cut and fill when we stake out the points.

Seems it should eb a bit more straightforward than it seems to be.

Thanks, all, and I will keep investigating.

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Mark Marnell — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:26:28 GMT

All I did what use MicroStation Place Active Point (or SmartLine, for that matter), selected the elements and ran the report - as I thought that the terrain elevations were wanted (Ken did say "I don't really need the points in the design model").

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Ken Crawford — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:14:30 GMT

Well, perhaps this is the crux of the issue: I created the points in a fieldbook as Survey elements (COGO points, perhaps??) because I had to select the centers of a series of circular steel pipe piles (in the file as cylinder solids). This set their elevations forever and always to the elevation of those centers, and I wanted to be able to update their elevations with a terrain model. Much like the Geometry tools suggest. I suppose I needed to create them using the Geometry tools, but I didn't know that when I started. 92 points later, I was hoping to just pick a tool to let me drape them on a surface. Like InRoads (and presumably GEOPAK, MX as well) used to let me do. I was looking for that tool.

Plus when I have the points in a fieldbook, I can very easily dump them, or turn off their visibility, etc.

Thanks, I'll check things out and try to always use the geometry tools.

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Ken Crawford — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:10:01 GMT

One more thought occurs: did you do this with points added to a terrain? I was trying to do it with points I added into a fieldbook (Survey elements). Not sure if that's an issue, but worth investigating.

Thanks!

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Ken Crawford — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:08:22 GMT

That would work, but I didn't want to futz around with editing the XSL style sheet(s). Perhaps I'll look it up and do that, and that would be a work–around for sure. But the real functionality I want is to be able to drape something —anything— onto a terrain model and have it react to the elevations in the model. I shouldn't have to create alignments and profiles to do that for linear elements, and I certainly ought to be able to do it with points. I would think, anyway . . .

Thanks.

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Mark Shamoun — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:08:13 GMT

I'm confused - what I do is create points using the Geometry tools, either have the Elevations from Terrain/Mesh option set or use the Modify Points tool to get elevations from a Terrain and then generate a Report using the 3d points that were created (as selecting the 2d ones don't give me elevations)?

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Mark Marnell — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:05:38 GMT

Ken

You can easily amend the report XSL file to get the following - I selected 5 points, and ran the report, and then just switched to a different report style.

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Ken Crawford — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:03:45 GMT

Nah, I had them as 3D points, tried them also as 2D, both independent of the terrain model geometry file and within it. I can't seem to hit upon the right combination. Surely someone, somewhere, knows how to drape points onto a surface?!?! Tough enough to drape elements by having to use the "Profile" tools, but OK, I can see it. But it forces you to make an alignment that way, when all we sometimes want to do is draw a 2D line, drape the ends on a surface and lower it 4 feet to use as a waterline. Simple stuff, really.

So I did hit on a solution, but not my preference . . . I just dumped the points out to Excel with their initial elevations and too it into Carlson Civil, imported the points into a coordinate file, set their elevations by surface model (three times, one for each surface, transferred to Carlson via LandXML), then report the coordinates out to Excel and voila! Took about five minutes total. That's the kind of ease of use I'm looking for with ORD/Connect, so I remain hopeful . . .

Thanks!

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Ken Crawford — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:59:21 GMT

Tried that as well, but the report is staggered in rows, which makes me have to delete the rows I don't want to get columns of the elevations shown. I need to get the elevations from the "Analyze Elevation" report into the same as the points report (just columns that I can readily use in Excel.

I did find a solution, but not the one I wanted . . . I just dumped them out to Excel with their initial elevations, took them over into Carlson Civil and draped them there on each of the surfaces. Took about 5 minutes for all three surfaces. THAT's the kind of efficiency I want out of ORD/Connect, so I remain hopeful!

Thanks.

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Mark Marnell — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:59:01 GMT

How did you add the elevations - and why? All Ken needs is the elevations in a report (as far as I can see).

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Mark Shamoun — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:51:29 GMT

Once I add elevations they appear in 3d for me. Then when I report them I don't get elevations reported unless I select the 3d points?

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Mark Marnell — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:49:03 GMT

Mark - I just created a point in the 2D model for the report, I have nothing in the 3D model.

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Mark Shamoun — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:43:45 GMT

Hmm...one thing that is annoying is that you need to select the 3d points it creates in the 3d model to get elevations shown in reports, could that be it?

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Mark Marnell — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 08:59:00 GMT

If you have the points drawn, and you want the elevations - try the 'Analyse Elevation' option in Terrain > Analysis > Points. Select the points, and you will get XYZ in the report.

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Ken Crawford — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 08:10:43 GMT

Very first (and second, third, etc) thing I tried, but it had no effect whatsoever. I even tried moving my points into the terrain model file directly and tried it there, still no joy. I would have thought that this particular tool would have done it, but apparently not. I tried selecting individually, pre–selecting and responding with a data–point to accept, all that . . . it just wouldn't update.

But thanks, though. Any other ideas? Perhaps I'm not using the tool correctly. Let me know if I should post some files or anything, I'll be glad to. All I'm trying to do is set the elevations on a bunch of points on each of three surfaces, one at a time. Then run a report to ultimately wind up with an Excel file of Northing, Easting, and Elevation for each of the three surfaces for the same XY points (I need them at differing stages). I don't really need the points in the design model, I just thought that would be easier than analyzing the surface and writing down the elevations for 92 points, X3! So my plan was to drape them on the first surface, generate Excel 1. Rinse, lather, repeat for the three surfaces, then dump the points.

I made them as points under SURVEY, so perhaps that was the wrong approach? I'm not yet an expert on the "new way," so any guidance you or anyone may be able to throw my way is greatly appreciated! We could do this all day long back in the InRoads days, but I no longer have that installed, nor do I want to go backwards.

Thanks a bunch for the thoughts . . .

RE: Setting COGO point elevations on a terrain model (draping) in ORD Connect

Mark Shamoun — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:34:05 GMT

Hi Ken,

Have you tried the Geometry > Points > Modify Points tool? It can add elevations to your Points using Alignments, Terrains, Meshes, etc.