Folks:
I have able to do some fairly consistent profile projections of inlet/ manhole SUDA nodes. However, some of the node projections come into the profile fine (manholes, in particular) while others (various inlets) seem to not have a correct projection; in particular, an inlet which is over 10' Lg. tangent to C/L which shows up as a bit over 4' wide in a profile cut/ run. How is SUDA looking at the nodes for what it considers to be their actual sizes for projection?
Mark
ORD 2020 R2
Mark,
Please provide screenshots and/or your data for us to reproduce the issue you are having.
https://communities.bentley.com/products/road___site_design/w/road_and_site_design__wiki/38322/drainage-and-utilities
For more information about the Road and Site design tools, visit the Road and Site design WIKI at: http://communities.bentley.com/products/road___site_design/w/road_and_site_design__wiki
Thank you, Holly.
Attached, you can see a simple drainage system layout, parallel to a particular centerline. The pipe lengths show up fine in the profile, but the structure widths do not. When applying the "Project Profile" tool, the projection lines do indeed represent the widths of the structures projecting to centerline, but you can see in the profile window that the widths are incorrect. Interestingly enough, the Engineering Profile shows the widths correctly.
The only structures which project consistently in my profiles are cylindrical manholes.As well, the issue seems to be random with larger structures showing up smaller than reality at times and smaller structures showing up larger than reality. But again, the issue is mostly random.
Thanks!
Holly:
File uploaded, and thanks so much for your help! I feel like it has to be something "simple", but we will see.
Please upload the .cel file as well.
I uploaded a stripped version of the cel library only containing the structures of current interest. I feel that whatever maybe wrong is somewhat of a universal issue, so to speak.
I don't believe you have the correct cells that you want to use assigned to your Feature Definitions for the Nodes. For example....
In the dgn you sent me, the PR Inlet Cl Desc. 1 (6" Curb) Feature Definition has a cell called Top_Cl_Inlet_Des_1_6 assigned to the Top and Bottom_Cl_Inlet_Des_1_6 assigned to the bottom. Neither of these cells are within the .cel file you sent me. I edited the element template to point to a top/bottom cell from where you sent. I had to update the drawing my reconnecting the conduits to the nodes, but then the profile fixed itself. It seems that your Feature Definitions aren't operating like you'd like for them to. I recommend investigating your FD to make sure everything is pointed correctly.
I do have the correct cells assigned to my FD's; I just forgot to include those particular cells within the library that I sent to you... my fault- of course- on that one. All of the line-work from SUDA does indeed get projected to the profile, that is not the issue. The issue is that the widths (lengths along CL/ CRL) do not show up correctly with correct dimensions. I am provided three images which show the issue. Here, I have laid out some simple manholes and a couple of junction boxes, with the manholes being 4' ID, 5' ID, 6' ID, 7' ID, and 8' ID, and the junction boxes being 13' x 10'. The manholes should project to the profile as 4', 5' 6' 7' 8' wide, and the junction boxes as 13' wide. This is not what is happening. The projection shows 4', 5' 5' 6' and 7' with the junction boxes being 8' and 4.9213' wide. This number "4.9213" shows up quite often, especially when the structure is at the beginning or end of a run.
The first image is of the drainage along the centerline of the system. One may easily see by inspection that the widths of some of these structures is just not right. The second image is of a 3D cut along the centerline of the system. Here, one can see by inspection that the structures look absolutely great, with no errors to be perceived. The third image is of the system projected upon the CRL. The profile here is practically identical to the first image for the sake of inspection. Notice that the profile grid lines for the structure widths are correct as well as are the actual lengths of the conduits. SUDA seems to "understand" the actual widths of the structures even though they are not properly projected to these widths in profile.
This issue is critical to us here as SUDA only seems to fail utter perfection for us in only this single issue. I am uploading the cel library with the affected structures (yes, double checked this time), and another dgn for your inspection. If you find that the projections measure fine from your end, I would very much appreciate any ideas on what may be happening on my end. Right now. I am quite at a loss to explain what may be occuring here.
I rotated the node to force a redraw of the cell and then rotated it back to its original rotation. It fixed the issue in the profile. I recorded a video showing the workflow. Please try this and let me know your results. New_1.dgn
I tried using your method with the original file that I sent you and it worked fine with these circular manholes. However, the issue is persistent when using rectangular vaults. I checked the sizes as are reflected in the Inlet Library and they all match the sizes which are standard. When I attach any of these inlets to expand the network of manholes as were sent, the manholes either revert to the apparent default value of 4.9213' or seem to take on the size of the structure which precedes it.
As regards your "workaround", is such behavior "normal" for the display of a profile; that is, is it expected behavior to have to rotate the node and then have to rotate it back? Trying such with my inlet vaults did not change them at all; they default to the 4.9213' as has been previously mentioned. I feel that there is a clue in this number, but again what that is I cannot understand.
To answer my initial inquiry, where is SUDA getting the projected widths of these structures from? XML, plan node dimensions, 3D top/ bottom dimensions...???
I have no experience with SUDA so I can't offer a great deal of direct help with your problem. I have found many problems in ORD are in some way related to metric conversions. We run into these even though our working units are in feet. In this case a metric to english conversion, 4.9213*0.3048, yields 1.5 exactly.
Hope this helps.
Thank you Ray for that interesting analysis. Possibly the software is "holding onto" something from a files past? Our working units are in Survey Feet (soon to be changed, of course)... still, what you have stated is of utmost interest to me.
I tried duplicating it again with my data. I made sure to place rectangular vaults and then finally saw what you are describing. There have been a couple defects already filed for this and approved for development to address in a future release.
Defect 1088168: [Subsurface] Profile node display using "box" method (File > Settings > User Preferences)