How to stop references in drawing models from shifting?

Hi Zane,

We use this in production quite successfully. How do drawing models shift? Are you physically picking up the named boundaries and moving them to a different spot - this will shift the Drawings as you suggest, but I'm not sure why you would ever do this and is not how the software is supposed to work.

Are you serious?  

I work on large interchange projects, matchlines and sheet limits are always changing from preliminary to final design.   Sheets are being added and extended.  Lets say a new pond gets added and you have to adjust the sheet limits.  Or the alignment gets extended, (this never happens) and you have to shift all the sheets by 100'.  So you are saying I should to recut sheets if I make the smallest modification to a named boundary.  

 How do drawing models shift?   Go into an existing file with a named boundary and modify a named boundary associated to a plan view.  Then open the corresponding drawing model and check the reference settings. The x,y coordinates will be off.

I'm not sure why you would ever do this and is not how the software is supposed to work.    - Really,  named boundaries are static.  Bentley design named boundaries to never be moved or modified.  

As do I - the dynamics relate to the contents of the model frames and annotation (to a certain limit) and not the Named Boundaries themselves.

How would you expect the software to know what you want to do? As you shift the boundaries of one drawing, would you expect it would automatically adjust all following Drawings and Sheet Models automatically? The process you want would require the reference attachment to move itself automatically - what about instances when Named Boundaries are references into seperate Drawing files?

We have accepted the fact that Sheets need to be recreated on alignment changes and as you said, it doesn't happen too often. Just like before ORD, you have the same option to manually move References around. It may not ne the dream of full automation, but it is getting better and is much more advanced than other options.

Not sure you totally understand what is going on.  After creating a sheet from a named boundary, any modification to the named boundary will shift the references in the drawing model.  This makes all coordinate, station and offset labels bogus.  This is a liability on our end if the designer/drafter doesn't catch it.

I expect the software to hold the references in the drawing model at xy=0,0 no matter what.  The named boundary should move in the drawing model not the reference files.  Makes sense to me.  Civil 3d has sheet cut features that adjust automatically why can't ORD.

We should expect more from Bentley not just assume what they are doing is always correct and well thought out.  Like I said earlier in the post.  The first releases of ORD had the references in the drawing model moving and rotating to some odd location.  Bentley didn't have a clue this was a problem.  I know because I brought it up.  They must of finally realized this was an issue. Since then they have made it so the references are at 0,0 but now updates to the named boundary throw everything all out of whack.

I for one am with Zane.  I honestly can NOT think of a benefit of PLAN Drawing Model system - especially since they don't remain geo-referenced after being moved (as Zane was saying).  To all my designers, I explain the PLAN Drawing Model as the "middle-man with no real purpose".  Why don't PLAN Named Boundary elements just behave like AutoCAD Viewports in the Sheet Model?  It honestly just needs to be a way to show the Default Model as clipped and at the correct rotation and scale in the Sheet Model.  Why introduce whole other model containing unnecessary and confusing nested references. This stuff is NOT beginner friendly and greatly steepens the learning curve - not to mention the whole system is BROKE and needs workarounds.

And then Mark says this "but I'm not sure why you would ever do this and is not how the software is supposed to work." So how are new Users supposed to know you have to recut sheets when an alignment is edited?  Does the software give warnings? Why would the User NOT just move a Named Boundary? It seems like the intuitive thing to do and wouldn't involve reworking sheets (especiacally because some sheets can have a lot of call outs and notes that would be a pain to re-create or copy)

A PROFILE Drawing Model make sense kind of more sense, but this also a broke model.  When the Adjust Profile Named Boundary tool is used after Sheets are cut, the Profile Grid will NOT move.  The Named Boundary is moved (ask you can visually see), but the Grid annotates the original location.  Basically, if the Grid needs to move or be resized, a whole new PROFILE Drawing Model (and Named Boundary) has to be created. Seriously?  AutoCAD can quickly swap out Profile Grid sizes and exaggerations - and guess what - you don't have to dedicate serious effort to getting the sheets back in order.

Also anyone notice that Alignment and Profile Annotations are BROKE and will re-generate to their original positions randomly.  I work on highway jobs.  Annotations often overlap with another element and has to be moved.  OKAY - go through the alignment and profile - readjust some profile and PC/PT labels etc.. - come back in to the drawing a week later and all that work is gone.  TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.  Between my firm and my client we sunk way too may hours in workarounds for displaying basic stationing annotations.  AutoCAD doesn't seem to have a problem with this - how is stationing labels that hard? I thought this was a ROADWAY DESIGN SOFTWARE? We need a reliable way to station an alignment.