We have noticed if named boundaries are moved or adjusted the drawing model references shift.
Is this new version 10.09 considered a beta version? If so, we should all be nervous. I noticed in the first versions of ORD the drawing model references weren't even in the correct location when Bentley was trying to promote the software back in 2018. I brought it up at a conference, stating to them this software is not usable if coordinate data is unreliable. There was little concern , stating the label tools would produce the correct data. Since then the new versions created drawing models in the correct location, but if you adjust the named boundary in the default model or a container file the drawing model references using the named boundary still shift. Causing us to constantly check the drawing model references. I am very concerned a small adjustment in matchlines could cause a shift and we won't catch it. Large projects have hundreds of sheets , this can be an overwhelming number of files to manage and QC.
Is there any solution to this problem?
Hi Zane,
We use this in production quite successfully. How do drawing models shift? Are you physically picking up the named boundaries and moving them to a different spot - this will shift the Drawings as you suggest, but I'm not sure why you would ever do this and is not how the software is supposed to work.
Regards,
Mark
OpenRoads Designer 2023 | Microstation 2023.2 | ProjectWise 2023
Are you serious?
I work on large interchange projects, matchlines and sheet limits are always changing from preliminary to final design. Sheets are being added and extended. Lets say a new pond gets added and you have to adjust the sheet limits. Or the alignment gets extended, (this never happens) and you have to shift all the sheets by 100'. So you are saying I should to recut sheets if I make the smallest modification to a named boundary.
How do drawing models shift? Go into an existing file with a named boundary and modify a named boundary associated to a plan view. Then open the corresponding drawing model and check the reference settings. The x,y coordinates will be off.
I'm not sure why you would ever do this and is not how the software is supposed to work. - Really, named boundaries are static. Bentley design named boundaries to never be moved or modified.
Zane Pratt
Civil Designer
I know there was quite a bit of effort around drawing production . Well that is good to hear.
The annotation and plan production is what is driving everyone crazy. I am almost ready to give up and create sheets like we did in v8 just to become more efficient.
A long discussion. I hope to well understand the issue.
If I update the reference from the saved view, then the Civil annotation is correctly updated.
However, because of the shift of the reference, any non civil (ruled) annotation doesn't move. And if you label coordinates (MicroStation) they are not Design Model coordinates.
You can set auxillary coordinate system to match reference but it is additional complexity (even it is just one click to create it) and doesn't solve management of change. Because each time you move the named boundary, non ruled annotation done in the drawing model could be at the wrong location. It means only civil annotation should be used.
I will check with 2021 R1 if some improvements are coming here.
"Only civil annotation should be used" makes no sense to me. We have hundreds of notes on our plan sheets, each individual to a specific piece of information. Trying to have the forethought to develop all of the favorites and templates and other "pre-programming" so that each of those can be a "civil annotation" is an enormous (probably impossible) task. I'll admit, I have not gotten far into my exploration, but it does not appear to be that easy to generate a new civil annotation on the fly, when you need it.
An improvement would be allowing us options to create our sheets without "breaking" the label tools. I am a huge proponent of SCR (scale, rotate move) the border to the real world locations. While it wouldn't solve the problem of labels refusing to associate with their proper design elements, it would at least allow us to label and measure and dimension in real world coordinates.
Drawing models appear to be a reasonably useless, obviously problematic, redundancy that seems to offer little payoff for not-very-apparent benefit. I honestly have yet to hear an overwhelming chorus of people who prefer this new way, praising the problems it solved for them.
MaryB
Power GeoPak 08.11.09.918Power InRoads 08.11.09.918OpenRoads Designer 2021 R2
Zane,Do you think creating a new file just for the labels help with the issue you dealt with?
Well at least the labels would be correct and not shift around. Some DOT's have label files that can be attached to the sheets.
Still the basic problem with named boundaries exists. If you move or modify named boundaries the linked drawing model becomes bogus. The references move. This is a problem Bentley just cant seem to comprehend. Amazing