ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

RE: ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

Erdem Atilir — Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:21:25 GMT

I didn't think the legacy vertex delete command could work. After I have tried, I could only get partial results. Geometry is still PI-based after vertex delete (as you said first one for deleting curve and second one for the PI point), but silly situations can still occur at the PI points.

Actually the iterative design process works pretty well as long as you don't add or subtract PI points. I expected geometry creation and editing to be the most robust part of the program, but I've been following it since 2018 and things still haven't worked out completely. It will be enough if everything works as in SS2.

In addition, maybe someone knows how to export the legacy ALG geometry file? Just to check if it works in SS2.

RE: ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

Ray Thwaits — Fri, 12 Nov 2021 16:39:20 GMT

It appears to me that you have hit upon one of ORD's greatest weaknesses - its almost nonexistent support for iterative design. This has frustrated me to no end. It's to the point where I've taken it back to InRoads SS2 where it's quicker to revise the geometry and rerun the corridor than it is to simply revise the geometry in ORD.

I have occasionally had luck using the MicroStation "Delete Vertex" tool to delete PIs. Use it once to delete the curve and a second time to delete the PI itself. I don't know how that will affect your trouble moving PIs.

RE: ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

Shawn Cooke — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:38:29 GMT

You can use the legacy "Drop complex" tool to drop the alignment down to it's core elements... remove the segments and add single element removing the PI. Recomplex the alignment using the create complex tool ensuring the feature name is the same as what you dropped.

RE: ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

Erdem Atilir — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:28:35 GMT

Thanks for your quick response guys.

As a palliative solution we will use circle objects and spaping PI point to centers.

Simplify geometry doesn't do anything even after deactivating rules.

"Insert fillet" command in modify menu stil protects the integrity of the complex element while inserting new PI but there is no remove PI command like that. If anybody knows a way of removing PI other than Table Editor, it will fix most of our problem for now.

RE: ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

Zane Pratt — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:58:08 GMT

Looks like after the table editor modifies the alignment the rules of the alignment are changed. The "simplify geometry" was suppose to fix that. You could try and right click on the alignment and remove the rules then run the "simplify geometry" command.

Last resort:

If you open your "feature definition toolbar" and turn the snap on , you could snap to the circle center which will make a rule. Then use the circles as your PI control. Move the circle to modify the point.

RE: ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

Shawn Cooke — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:51:14 GMT

Importing alignments and using the PI tool you show will cause this issue. The process that seems to work best is to create separate elements, then apply the curves and complex them together for the final alignment. Use the "arc between elements" command to place the arch between previously created tangent lines. That arc tool will trim the tangent lines back as needed and heal as you shift other portions of the design around.

RE: ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

Erdem Atilir — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 08:16:05 GMT

Hi to all developers and community members,

As we are working on mountainous regions for wind turbine equipment transport, our horizontal geometries comprise many curves and need to be edited several times during design stage. We insert, remove or move the PI points also change radius many times on every geometry. Thus it is not applicable to draw the tangent lines first and apply arcs.

In our workflow horizontal and vertical geometry need to be edited iteratively and we need to see the corridor results instantaneously.

Up to now we tried to use simplify geometry command, tried to export and import the geometry (in every possible export format) just to reset everything, investigated the geometry objects to get any idea for the rules applied also tried to use "geometry builder editor".

Everything is alright up to any edit in table editor or before simplify geometry command. We want to preserve every other PI position during editing.

You can find the video below showing how the problematic situation occurred and what the problem was.

www.youtube.com/watch

RE: ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

Shawn Cooke — Tue, 09 Nov 2021 12:27:28 GMT

It usually works best to place your tangent lines first, then apply an arc between elements. This seems to allow the most flexible adjustments.

RE: ORD 2020 R3 - 2021 R1 Horizontal Geometry Edit Problem

Zane Pratt — Mon, 08 Nov 2021 14:59:58 GMT

A rule has been applied to the ahead PI , probably the deflection angle or something. ORD does this all the time. Defining misc rules on complex elements. Sometimes the "Simplify Geometry" will fix the problem and convert the alignment to a PI based definition. If not the other option is to edit the alignment in the "geometry builder editor"