best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

Jeff Martin — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 20:30:15 GMT

hey, thanks. The Graphic Filter requires the graphics to be in separate dgn's, yes? There is no selection set or fence option (or is there)?

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

Jeff Martin — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 20:28:39 GMT

yes, it looks like there is someone working with import/exports roundtripping to manage changes etc. (like your LandXML note). I'm still getting familiar with their whys...

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

Jeff Martin — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 20:24:17 GMT

looks like that is the consensus. thanks, Chris!

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

Jeff Martin — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 20:03:55 GMT

yes, clever bit of trickery there with The Don Lee Method. I think you'd get the same results, though, as if you were complexing to an existing surface (the "islands" will want to touch without manual intervention).

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

Chris McNulty — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 22:19:22 GMT

Jeff,

I agree with Mary. Best practice would be to isolate the raw imported data and bring each area of data into separate fieldbooks. If thats a hastle you can create a selection set of a single area of topo data and then do the following:

- hold the shift key on your keyboard and do not let go. If the shift key doesn’t work it might be the ctrl key.

- right click on “Fieldbook”….not the actual project fieldbook, but the one labeled fieldbook directy above the project fieldbook

- select create terrain model from selection set

- once the terrain is created then you can let go of the shift or ctl key!

Hope this helps!

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

Shawn Cooke — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 19:41:43 GMT

Ran across this recently that may add some value to the discussion here. Don Lee describes the use of a placeholder within a complex terrain (he refers to as a named Null surface) that can be replaced and added to later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qAV0usnjt0 In other parts of the video series he does describe the use of terrain filters to define corridor breaklines and how those can be stitched into another terrain.

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

caddcop — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 15:54:48 GMT

I have worked with a lot of surveyors and sometimes they can be a stubborn as structural engineers! Both of my children spent number of years working on field crews and my son is now a party chief. My daughter worked both office and field before moving on to other higher-level CAD/GIS positions. I mentioned my children because I would ask their opinions on new ideas before making them at work. They were much more willing to try different things if the payoff is worth making the change. The office staff are like old dogs, and these are new tricks. It is surprising that even though they recognize my expertise, they will reject recommended workflows and other related suggestions, even when we pointed out that these had been successfully implemented at other firms and were recognized as improvements, not just changes..

We do a lot of retrofit projects where we are redoing curbs and sidewalks so we often have strips of survey data on different sides of the roads or different quadrants. The only way to really make those work is separate terrain elements in one or multiple files.

I had experience in Civil 3D where we used the terrain from survey live and someone removed an essential breakline. Since then, we published our terrain to LandXML and used it to create the "live" terrain. A similar approach in Open Roads might be in order. And I believe you can have survey not automatically create terrain elements for the last few releases.

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

FRANCISCO JOSÉ ESCARPA — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 14:33:04 GMT

Hello,

Y can provide you the procedures I follow for that.

For a surveyor should not be an issue to provide you separate models for each patch.

If surveyors provide you with a monolithic finished model ( any kind of DTM), I load it and create trim terrains for each via individual poligonal fences. Is quite fast, and usually brings no issues.

If they provide only the graphical components (points, breaklines, etc ...), then create individual terrains for each patch. One graphic filter will do the trick.

Of course, I create each model in individual files and reference them in a federated model.

If you need that a corridor interact with some of them, the procedure I use is defining each one as a target aliasing, so you can easily update or replace the different patch if needed (different execution phases over time, for example), without the mess of upgrading or recreating a complex model every time.

Best regards.

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

Jeff Martin — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 22:50:55 GMT

I can change my typing and mouse behavior comparatively easily. Motor skills and physical process is much tougher for me. Just TRY to teach me a dance step (oh, the humanity!). Putting additional decisions in an outdoor free-for-all environment or asking something that takes additional time per shot is a big ask with potential quality concerns. KISS. I used to think surveyors were the most stubborn, but now I argue that it's drainage guys. If you show a surveyor a better way, they are more likely to adopt it than a drainage designer ("Yep, that's better, but I'm still going to do it on my monster spreadsheet").

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

MaryB — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 22:09:32 GMT

I can agree with you that I would prefer topography linework in a drawing separate from the terrain. But if the area is relatively small and the result is significantly better, it might be worth it.

I also understand the reluctance to debate with the surveyors. I feel that the fact that we are the client for their services is often overlooked. When I do my design work, I have to give the client what they ask me for, in the format they want. Most of the survey departments I've worked with...don't see it that way. Great guys! but definitely set in their ways.

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

Jeff Martin — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 21:46:43 GMT

Thanks, Mary! I'm interested in the responses as well. I am always reluctant to "offer suggestions" to field teams about changing their behavior in the field. I'm hoping there's an easy backoffice step.

I hadn't ever thought I needed a Create From Graphic filter against a Selection Set, but that seems like it would be easy and straightforward. Less straightforward, but maybe a better paper trail and updateability: a bunch of file fence to dgn and then Graphic Filter (each new file).

Maybe having each <island terrain>.dgn have the terrain and its graphics in it is okay (though I do like the ideal of terrian files only hold terrains....

RE: best practice for multiple isolated terrain areas?

MaryB — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 21:11:30 GMT

The best way would be for your surveyors to take the time to code them in as separate fieldbooks...

I'll be interested to see what the suggestions are. I've seen a few surveys like this, and I'd like to know if there are tips I can pass along to the survey companies to make my life easier.