[ORD 2021 R2] Template Help

Folks, I am in need of a template expert to assist me.

I am working on the end condition and subgrade components of my template, trying to eliminate the need for end condition exceptions and hand editing of the subgrade in the cross sections.

Problem #1:

  • I have 3 different possible end conditions I want for each side of the road, which I would like to manipulate with parametric constraints. Normally I would handle this with end condition exceptions.
    • Flat Bottom ditch
    • V ditch
    • Straight slope
  • My thought was to have a null point trigger. I could add all 3 end conditions into the template with display rules for them to display when the null point trigger is at x offset controlled by a parametric constraint. So I did this and set a parametric constraint on the null point to offset to -5 where I had a display rule for the FB ditch to turn on when null point offset = -5. This didn't seem to work and no end condition was displayed at all.

Problem #2:

  • I need to model a layer of crushed stone base as well as a layer of rock roadbed beneath.
  • There are 2 conditions for each layer - a normal condition and a superelevated condition. When in normal crown, the subgrade follows the slope of the road. But when superelevated over 0.5%, the subgrade holds slope at 0.5% away from the centerline. This is because I never want the subgrade to slope toward the centerline. I believe I was able to get this to work for the CSB so far by creating the 2 different subgrade conditions as children of each end condition with display rules to display based on the travel lane slope.
  • But these components only display properly when they can fully tie into the foreslope. There are conditions where the bottom of subgrade vector offset point goes past the ditch bottom. In these cases, I would want it to stop horizontally and model up to the ditch bottom. To me, this would require yet another component with some sort of null point test potentially?

I have been spinning my wheels on this all day and starting to think maybe I have overcomplicated it or maybe what I am trying to do is not possible. I prefer to use a single template for the project, as end conditions are not uniform throughout. 

If anyone has any insight I would be indebted and if anyone could fit in some time, I would love to hop on a Teams meeting to explain further. I have also attached the template below.

TIA for any help!

test library.itl

Parents
  • Are your ditches standard, or do they have a ditch profile? You might be able to control the change from ditch to slope by the existence of the ditch profile if there's no profile for that station range, the ditch end condition would fail and give you the slope by default.

    A Flat-bottom ditch and a V-ditch might actually be the same ditch, using a variable for "bottom width".

    MaryB

    Power GeoPak 08.11.09.918
    Power InRoads 08.11.09.918
    OpenRoads Designer 2021 R2

        

  • Mary, I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

    The ditches are all controlled by vertical point controls. How would the lack of profile make the ditch not model? I figured if there is no vertical control present the ditch will still model at whatever vertical constraint it is set to in the template?

    I could make the flat bottom and v ditch one in the same, controlling the bottom width with a parametric constraint. The issue I see with that is I could only use one feature definition. Since the V ditches always point upstation, I end up drawing them in by hand anyway so maybe it wouldn't be a huge issue if all of the ditches had the flat bottom feature definition.

    I feel like I shouldn't need to create some elaborate template with complex display rules and tests, like why can't I just have these end conditions in the template and say from xx+xx to yy+yy I want to use this end condition, etc. I guess I just have trouble wrapping my head around templates.

  • I don't like master templates. I mean they are powerful, but as you see, they are also complex and difficult to troubleshoot. I prefer to run my pavement as one corridor, my left sideslope as another (referencing the pavement) with my right sideslope as a third. That way, my pavement does what it does, and my end conditions are on separate corridors as their own template drops. That way, it really can be "from xx+xx to yy+yy use this end condition". My end condition templates can get a little complex if I want to play with testing and rules, but I don't have to think of all the conditions for a giant template that would do everything. I'm sure there are projects where that approach might not work, but for what I've been up to it works fine.

    I'll have to get back to you on the vertical point controls, and how to make the ditch end condition fail. It's been a minute since I've done a template, so I could be misremembering or getting confused.

    MaryB

    Power GeoPak 08.11.09.918
    Power InRoads 08.11.09.918
    OpenRoads Designer 2021 R2

        

  • Matt,

    It's possible to say from xx+xx to yy+yy I want to use this end condition.

    To do this, you need to use two null points as a switch condition connected to display rules. Depending on the distance between the two points a display rule is triggered and displays one of the end conditions.

    Example:

    • distance = 0, no end condition
    • distance = 1, end condition 1
    • distance = 2, end condition 2
    • etc.

    The distance is set using a parametric constraint on the two null points making it a fully manual process.

  • This is what I have done but I think I am having issues with priority. Only the end condition that is priority 1 will display.

  • Matt,

    I believe you can accomplish what you're trying to do with the EC's by using End Condition Exception Overrides (Just like you mentioned in the last paragraph above). The trick is to not have all of the EC's in the base template when you run it in the corridor (i.e.- remove the "extra EC's"). Maybe just have the one EC that you want to solve the majority of the corridor in your base template, then add in the ECE Overrides from xx+xx to yy+yy for the alternate EC solutions and so on. You may also want to add in End Condition Exception Transitions to fine tune your model before and after the change in End Conditions.

    Now regarding the second problem with your base materials, I'm not sure this EC Exception will help you with that problem as the EC solution is the last thing to process at any given station, and it sounds like your base material configurations are dependent upon the locations of your End Conditions.

    Sorry I don't have the full solution but maybe this gets you going in the right direction, or over one of the hurdles.

    -Joe Muni
    Owner/President JAM Consulting
    InRoads-OpenRoads Consultant/ Project Support/ Staff Augmentation
  • The template I made uses several end conditions, and each end condition uses priority 1. This works because each end conditions has it's own independent point of origin.

    The image shows the control points that govern the display rules at the bottom, and the separate end conditions above the road surface.
    (In the corridor they move to the same level using another parametric constraint, but are placed at different levels for easy editing.)

    Answer Verified By: Matt Murphy 

Reply
  • The template I made uses several end conditions, and each end condition uses priority 1. This works because each end conditions has it's own independent point of origin.

    The image shows the control points that govern the display rules at the bottom, and the separate end conditions above the road surface.
    (In the corridor they move to the same level using another parametric constraint, but are placed at different levels for easy editing.)

    Answer Verified By: Matt Murphy 

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