Data Acquisition Tools

As a reasonably long time inRoads Survey user, are there any benefits to me looking into these tools? How do they fit into the greater scheme of things?

I have been very pleased with the flexibility that InRoads Survey offers and make heavy use of the custom codes for placing automated labels with 3D planimetrics. If the intent is to eventually phase out the survey products in favor of Data Acquisition Tools I can only hope that these capabilities are part of those tools.

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  • CaddCop:

    It has been and continues to be our intent to evolve new tools (such as Data Acquisition) in such a way that YOU decide when and if they are viable alternatives for you and your organization.   Thus Data Acquisition is installed alongside InRoads Survey (GEOPAK and MX too).  Our job is to make them so compelling that you want to invest in them  If you don't  yet find the tools compelling then InRoads Survey is fully intact and fully suported.

    Some reasons you might want to investigate Data Acquisition at this time are:

    • Drag and Drop processing of survey data
    • Automatic computation of surface from the survey points and lines
    • Easier (in my opinion) creation of surfaces from LIDAR and DEM data.
    • Automatic updating of surfaces when survey data changes or added to
    • It is common to MX, InRoads and GEOPAK.  So if you have a mixed shop, these tools can provide a common toolset to standardize training and workflows. 

    Your XIN settings are supported including custom operations.

    Is it a complete replacement for InRoads Survey? Not in this release.  But it might be a viable replacement for some or all of your particular workflow.

    I did an eseminar on these tools a month or so ago and a recording of it should be available at bentley.com.   You can also contact me by way of email if you have questions or feedback.  Robert.Garrett@bentley.com

    Robert Garrett
    Senior Product Engineer
    Bentley Systems Inc.



  • Robert,

    I would be interested in viewing the E-seminar on data acquisition but I am having trouble locating it on the bentley.com site. Could you kindly be a bit more specific in identifing it?

    Regards

    Phil

  • www.bentley.com/.../InRoads

    It is probably accessible thru other routes such as the one Art pointed out, but this is where I got to it.  Don't let the "InRoads" category bother you.  The material is equally appropriate in MX, except you would use your PSS settings.

    Robert Garrett
    Senior Product Engineer
    Bentley Systems Inc.



  • Thanks Robert,

    The video was impressive. It looks like a recent surface merge I worked on could possibly have been done in a much shorter time.

    But it did raise a few questions:

    1. After you bring in a bunch of RAW files, can it save something like an FWD?
    2. Can you build a merged surface where some survey data trumps older survey data? In my recent assignment, I started with photogrammetry, and then a second, newer photogrammetry, followed by some RAW files from a number of different dates, some of which were updating areas from an earlier survey.
    3. Do you have to use triangle when merging surfaces? I find that if I am not building a proposed surface, but joining survey with photogrammetry, the exterior of the survey based upon triangles is too arbitrary limit to use as a merge clipping area. I used manually place fences with Delete Features and Copy Portion of Surface to punch out holes and then to bring in the newer data.
    4. What Actual InRoads products, when loaded make these tools available? Since its obvious we use InRoads Survey, are these tools available to someone running it?

    I may have others, but I will have to reflect on this some more and will use another post when I do.

    Thanks again.


    Charles (Chuck) Rheault
    CADD Manager

    MDOT State Highway Administration

    • MicroStation user since IGDS, InRoads user since TDP.
    • AutoCAD, Land Desktop and Civil 3D, off and on since 1996
Reply
  • Thanks Robert,

    The video was impressive. It looks like a recent surface merge I worked on could possibly have been done in a much shorter time.

    But it did raise a few questions:

    1. After you bring in a bunch of RAW files, can it save something like an FWD?
    2. Can you build a merged surface where some survey data trumps older survey data? In my recent assignment, I started with photogrammetry, and then a second, newer photogrammetry, followed by some RAW files from a number of different dates, some of which were updating areas from an earlier survey.
    3. Do you have to use triangle when merging surfaces? I find that if I am not building a proposed surface, but joining survey with photogrammetry, the exterior of the survey based upon triangles is too arbitrary limit to use as a merge clipping area. I used manually place fences with Delete Features and Copy Portion of Surface to punch out holes and then to bring in the newer data.
    4. What Actual InRoads products, when loaded make these tools available? Since its obvious we use InRoads Survey, are these tools available to someone running it?

    I may have others, but I will have to reflect on this some more and will use another post when I do.

    Thanks again.


    Charles (Chuck) Rheault
    CADD Manager

    MDOT State Highway Administration

    • MicroStation user since IGDS, InRoads user since TDP.
    • AutoCAD, Land Desktop and Civil 3D, off and on since 1996
Children
  • Q: After you bring in a bunch of RAW files, can it save something like an FWD?

    {RG} the only currently supported export formats are GEOPAK (TIN and GPK), InRoads (DTM and ALG), MX (FIL) and LandXML 1.2 (including survey data). 

    Yours is the second request this week for FWD export.  Can you enlighten me as to the purpose you would use an FWD.  I assume it is a known format and you use it to share data between various projects and users????  If this is the case, then I would encourage you to check out LandXML.  In Data Acquisition, we support the 1.2 format including the raw survey observations.  NOTE: the recent Select Series 1 refresh release contains some LandXML bug fixes for problems found in the original SS1 release.

    Q: Can you build a merged surface where some survey data trumps older survey data?

    {RG} yes.  In your specific example of photgrametric data, you would simply create a surface containing the newer aerial data and then set it to merge AFTER the first aerial surface data.  Similarly you might need to replace actual field survey raw data.  For example, I once worked for Tennessee DOT, where we would very often return to a project months (or even years) later to collect data that had changed since it was originally surveyed.  IN this case you could create a second field book for the newer information and jiggle the merge order.

    NOTE: one of the aspects I haven't demonstrated in various avi files and demos is the ability to change the merge/append order.  Right click on the merged surface and you will have as one of your prompts the ability to do this.  You can change merge to append and vice versa, as well as change the order of various surfaces in the list.  For those familiar with SIte Modeler, this works very much like the FIFO list.

    Q: Do you have to use triangle when merging surfaces?

    No.  You can define a boundary to control the edge of any surface.  The best solution (IMO) is to use triangles to get a first solution.  Then turn on the boundary of the surface.  Then right click the surface to draw the graphics of the boundary (instead of transients).  Then edit the boundary graphic with move/insert vertex. Then select and import the modifed boundary.

    You can also introduce holes and voids into the interior of the surface by drawing a shape with MIcrostation and then select and import it.

    However, you will not find a comprehensive set of surface editing tools.  Data Acquisition was designed specifically for Acquisition.  We are currently working on a complete set of terrain model tools including comprehensive editing in the same mold as the Data Acquisiton tools.

    I have attached a video below that might be of interest.  This shows clipping a surface to reduce its size.

    Q: What Actual InRoads products, when loaded make these tools available?

    These tools are available and installed with virtually all our civil products of MX, InRoads or GEOPAK heritage.  The GEOPAK flavor of PowerCivil is the only product I am aware of which does not include DataAcquisition, although I must admit that I am uncertain about PowerSurvey.

    Robert Garrett
    Senior Product Engineer
    Bentley Systems Inc.



  • As to saving an FWD, that would be a client deliverable.

    When we are tasked to perform Topographic surveys for the DOT, we have to deliver RAW files, DTM, ALG, DGN and FWD. The DOT is still in 8.5 for most users, but some engineers are into XM on an unofficial basis. Their plan is to implement the next version as V8i, but I have not been able to confirm if that will be SS1 or possibly SS2. As far as a time frame, in the current economic climate, they have no time frame.

    One real problem is that their implementation of the InRoads Feature Based DTM is still largely non-existent. No formal or consistent naming convention, many of their Survey Features lack a matching Surface Feature.


    Charles (Chuck) Rheault
    CADD Manager

    MDOT State Highway Administration

    • MicroStation user since IGDS, InRoads user since TDP.
    • AutoCAD, Land Desktop and Civil 3D, off and on since 1996
  • Hmmm.... Very interesting.  Can we have a meeting sometime to discuss your workflows and client deliverables.  Maybe week of June 7?  Contact me thru email robert.garret@bentley.com and we can work out time zones, availability, etc.

    Robert Garrett
    Senior Product Engineer
    Bentley Systems Inc.