Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

RE: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

Anthony Cupit — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 15:36:43 GMT

5) is there a way to automate lines in Microstation drawn in a particular level to import to a particular Style in InRoads?

RE: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

Anthony Cupit — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 15:30:46 GMT

Dear cadcop,

I am not a CAD user but I am trying to plan a workflow somewhat in the dark.

We are working on the preliminary engineering for a multi disciplinary infrastructure project in the middle east but the lead discipline is Rail. The Rail team are using Bentley RailTrack. A large amount of the effort will be in producing utility drawings including plans and sections of utility crossings with rail and road alignments.

Existing utilities will be coming from multiple owners in dumb 2D CAD format. It has been recommended to me to model these in InRoads in order to automate the production of cross sections at crossings with the rail alignment (and roads at road crossing points).

So my questions:

1) Do you agree that InRoads is the most suitable software for this?

2) When we import our 2D lines from autocad / microstation to Inroads should we import as a drainage or as a DTM. My plan is to import and create the Z values from the standard cover from the existing surface DEM. I consider this sufficiently accurate for Prelim design.

3) I understand from your post that the key to get them to display properly is the proper setting up of the Styles. Do these Styles need to be set up properly before the import process or can we just start with the names and go back and fix them after. (We will have over 3000 sheets from various utility owners to import and waiting for all the Styles to be set up would be difficult).

4) Could you recommend any good manuals / tutorials that cover the "how" of the above so I can refer my graduate engineer to work it out.

Thanks in anticipation,

Anthony

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

CEC_DOM — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:31:56 GMT

Caddcop, I've actually been using the VAOT InRoads guide to learn InRoads in general and it's definitely been helping me out a lot. My problem did end up being the symbology but now that's fixed. Thanks again for your help.

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

CEC_DOM — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:30:30 GMT

Thanks, I will. I think I have it now, but Microstation keeps freezing. Getting an upgraded more powerful computer in the next few days so I'll let you know.

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

caddcop — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 01:35:28 GMT

Go to the VAOT CAD Support Web Page and download their InRoads guide - I believe somewhere near the end of it are pages explaining working with crossing features - you might want to look at their XIN and look at the settings for the features used in the guide.

Sounds like you are closing in on it.

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

CEC_DOM — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 00:41:18 GMT

Thank you all. I think the symbology is my only issue now. I can label the features fine on the plans, I just can't see them on the cross sections even with crossing and projected point displays on. I'll fix up the 4" Pipe style and it should work fine.

Thanks again!

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

Art Sabia — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:14:47 GMT

Three Things:

1.Check the symbology of 4" pipe and make sure that you have a line and point (and maybe annotation) set for cross section and profile. The symbol need to be large enough to see.

2.Check you Style and make sure that the Display Crossing Points (and may projected lines) is toggle on for cross sections and profiles

3.Change your Surface features to Break lines, they do not need to be triangulated.

Now Update Profile, Select Display on, go the crossing features, select the surface(s) that has the utilities you want to display and then select the listed features. NOW since these items are draped to the surface, the symbol will be on the ground line.

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

caddcop — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 23:26:32 GMT

You need to use this surface which has no triangles with another surface that does. If you have cut cross sections, all you need to do is use the Update Cross Section tool to add crossing features.

If you have not cut cross sections, that is where you need to specify at least one surface with triangles. I generally do not try to include features during the initial cutting of sections as the tools for isolating features are not offered in that interface.

I recommend using breakline as your point type. If you use random, there are some limitations that a breakline does not suffer from. You are correct about excluding from Triangulation.

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

CEC_DOM — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 21:40:58 GMT

I have also tried that with the same results. The reason I checked off "Exclude..." was because the help menu said to choose that option when creating underground utilities. I can still triangulate the surface with the box clicked, there are just no actual triangles.

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

Jeff McLeod — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 21:16:46 GMT

If you're creating a new surface, generally you need to triangulate it. Un-check "Exclude From Triangulation".

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

CEC_DOM — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:59:10 GMT

I think I may still be doing it incorrectly, like I said I'm new with InRoads so please bare with me. This is what I've done so far:

I created a new Surface DTM called Existing_Utilities. Then I isolated the gas lines on the plans and placed a fence around them. I imported surface "From Graphics" with

Surface: Existing_Utilities

Load From: Fence (I also tried single element and highlighted each individual line)

Elevations: Drape Surface

Intercept Surface: ExistingSurface

I created a seed name E-GAS with a feature style for a 4" pipe and used "Random" as my point type. I do not have a horizontal or vertical offset feature on my version of InRoads. I also chose Exclude from Triangulation.

I went into properties and gave everything a name and description. They all have the same style in this case, so I left it alone as 4" Pipe.

Finally, I created cross sections using the Existing_Utilities Surface only. I included everything I could (crossing features, components, annotate, etc) but nothing is being displayed on the cross sections.

Could my problem be from a faulty feature style or did I miss something?

Thanks for the information so far!

Re: Define Underground Utility Lines for Cross Sections

caddcop — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:39:58 GMT

InRoads can treat utilities as utilities or as features. Both can import smart lines - the key to success is having appropriate styles setup for their display once imported.

In my opinion, using features is easier and more universally available throughout the product. When importing, you have the option of using the smart line elevations or draping the features on the surface (with an optional vertical offset as in vertical depth of cover.) When draping, you can drape the entire smartline or only its vertices. Also, after the feature is in the surface, you can edit the feature points to modify them if needed. Finally, some people keep utility features in their own DTM rather than using the existing ground DTM. I believe it is a good choice.

Depending upon your needs, you will want crossing points and annotation enabled for cross sections on any features you define - and if you need different displays for similar utilities, you may need multiple features.

I also recommend using the Feature Properties dialog box after import to add information to the imported features - there is a description and a parent field where you can place some type of text information that can then be added to a label when you annotate features in cross sections. In Theory, you can even use the Name field, but since names need to be unique, their use is not something I would count on.

It will take a little time to set up the various styles and also the Annotate Features in Cross Section command preferences, but when you are finished, the time savings to display and annotate any crossing feature will quickly be recouped.