Using GEOPAK SS2 equivalent tools in GEOPAK SS3?

Question

I started a new thread with a new Subject in order to appeal to a larger audience... 
 I am trying to work my way through an entire production design/plan preparation sequence using GEOPAK SS3 and am running into a few stumbling blocks. I realize that the SS2 tools still exist in SS3, but many of them don't function the same way. Some of them that come to mind are: 
 Plan/Profile Sheet cutting 
 Plan View Labeler 
 Draw Profile Tool 
 Profile Labeler 
 Drainage 
 Using DDB to draw Pavement Marking 
 Quantity Manager 
 etc. 
 I understand that we can export alignment data and terrain data back to the native gpk and tin files, and then continue to use the SS2 tools found in SS3 to finish a plan set. 
 Once I have a final H and V alignment things work pretty smoothly, but I'm having a hard time getting there. Currently I am struggling with the Profile tools in SS3. Is there a way to use a GEOPAK Profile Cell in order to use the Draw Profile tool to display various profiles? So much of how I design profiles relies on profiles that are cut from a surface at the right-of-way for instance, or maybe I graphically offset an existing (or proposed) profile vertically in order to help design a new profile. I often utilize other graphics shown in a profile view to design a CL profile. I noticed that you can't even attach other profile views as references. Active Chain Control doesn't work in a profile view, but that seems to have been replaced with Civl Accudraw. The list goes on and on. So much of this seems impossible in SS3. 
 I'm curious what others' experience has been with regard to an entire start-to-finish workflow on a roadway project. 
 Josh Mauritz

Robert Garrett · Accepted Answer

Josh: At a high level you need to think of your workflow in two parts. Part 1 is design using OpenRoads tools and part 2 is plans produciton using the older tools. Mixing OpenRoads tools with older geometry tools for design phase will most likely be an unsatisfying exercise. 
 To specifically address your profile design questions: 
 
 You can show the profile from any surface in a profile view using the Profile from Surface command. We often think of such a command only in the terms of an existing ground profile but it can be any surface. 
 If you need the surface profile to be along a right of way line which is constant offset, then use the horizontal offset inputs for the command. 
 You may also have features which are offset from the centeline that have a designed profile. For example, maybe you want to see the profile of the curb gutter in the centerline profile view. For this, use the Project Profile command. This command projects the design profile of one feature into the profile view of a second feature. The two feature do not have to be parallel. 
 Putting these two cases together then you might have a surface profile which follows a feature which is varibale offset from the centerline. You would then use Profile from Surface to make a profile into the offset line, then the project profile command to show it in the centerline profile. 
 You are correct that you cannot reference profile views together. Using the above commands you should be able to get information into proper profile views for design. Then export necessary alignments and profiles for plans production tools. 
 And, also, yes, indeed, Civil Accudraw provides the functionality of Active Chain Control, plus more. 
 
 Merry Christmas 
 Robert

Robert Garrett · Answer

Aaron: 
 A site modeling workflow in OpenRoads will go something like this: 
 
 You will use various H and V geometry commands to design lines/shapes such as parking lot edges, building pads and etc. 
 You should find mostly the same functionality for profile design as site model contains, such as profile by slope from element, profile by slope from point and etc. 
 Once the linear elements have profiles designed, then use the terrain model from elements commands to make terrain models 
 Add subsurface layers (such as gravel pads or pavement) using the area templates command. 
 In places where you would have used comp section ins site modeler think corridors/templates instead. 
 If it is really roadway (or similar linear object) then use corridors, the same corridors that road designers use 
 If it is non-linear, such as ponds and parking, then build the interior as noted above and add edges and tie slopes using linear templates. This command provides similar functionalty as sections in site modeler. 
 
 The above will build object models of very good quality. 
 Then using various terrain model and corridor clipping commands you construct the final surface. 
 
 Then, to be fair, we must discuss the limitations: 
 
 Step 3 above is less effcient than site modeler, because you have to select elements and make objects instead of have them automatically added 
 Step 7 can become lengthy because you end up needing to merge many terrains and templates instead of a fewer number of objects. 
 Both these inefficiencies are due to abscence of the concept of an object in the same sense as exists in site modeler. Thus there is no way to define that these 4 lines and these 2 tie slopes are part of a single object to be manipulated as one. No, it wasn't forgotten, just haven;t gotten there in crrent versions. 
 
 Then the next question that you haven't yet asked is: Can OpenRoads provide the same sort of models? The answer is yes. I have been able to do everything I needed to model which includes a 25 lot subdivision and a 50 acre office complex. However, there are some inefficiencies that create a little extra work. Is the extra work worth the benefit of a more detailed model which is integrated with the road designs? You will need to answer that for yourself. If you decide not, then remeber that you can have SS2 and SS3 OpenRoads installed simultaneously.