Multiple Placement with Fuses

I am having an issue when I try to use multiple placement in panel layout with my fuse symbol. I have fuse part numbers and I have fuse holder part numbers both are needed to get the desirable information on the schematic and on our labels that we use. The problem is that in order to get the fuse description information such as amps and voltage the fuse needs to be the primary part number in the schematic. When you do that the fuse holder is the part that is used to place the layout on the panel. Since the fuse is the primary part number it does not allow you to use multiple placement in panel layout, because the fuse holder is not the primary part number in the schematic. Is there a work around for this?

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  • Hi Christopher.

    Unknown said:

    Since the fuse is the primary part number it does not allow you to use multiple placement in panel layout, because the fuse holder is not the primary part number in the schematic.

    Could you explain that part a little more? I inserted an FU symbol, assigned a fuse part number (FNQ-R1) as primary and a fuse holder part number (1491-N161) as a secondary. On the Insert Symbol By Device ID dialog while in Panel Layout Mode, I get a check box in the Multiple Symbols column and can set it and choose to place the symbol assigned to the fuse holder part number.



  • I should say I did this in promis.e 08.11.12.137. What software and version are you using?



  • Hi Matt,
    I am using promis-e V8i (SELECT series 3) booted up under microstation series 2 CAD. What you explained in what you inserted is the issue I am referring to. You can check the box select your part and then place it on the panel. That works just fine. The problem is you cannot (without changing the primary part in the schematic) use multiple placement in panel layout you can only select one at a time. Is there a work around for this besides changing the primary in the schematic. That can be very time consuming especially when you have 50 fuses to place on a panel.

    Chris McKinster

    Engineering Assistant

    Kohler Company

  • Ok, I understand now. This sounds like enhancement request TFS 7034, formerly S-56931. This request is to be able to select symbols from multiple devices, including symbols currently accessible only after enabling the Multiple Symbols check boxes, and place them all according to Group Settings by clicking Place Symbol(s) button. Your company is already listed as a requestor for this request.

    The only workaround I can think of would probably not be acceptable. It would be to specify a symbol in the Layout_Symbol field of the primary part number that looks like the fuse and the fuse holder. Then you would not need to set the Multiple Symbols check box when inserting the panel layout symbols; the software would insert the symbol for the primary part number. The problem is that this would not be appropriate if you use different fuse holders with significantly different appearance with a given fuse.



  • Hi Matt,

    Another way my colleague suggested was create a phantom symbol to place over the fuse symbol to get the text that we want (amps & voltage) and then make the fuse holder primary. This would allow the multiple placement option in panel layout and we would be able to keep the text that we want on the schematic and for our labels. Does that make sense?

    Chris McKinster

    Engineering Assistant

    Kohler Company

  • Yes, you could handle it that way. You may or may not think it is better than having to place the panel layout symbols individually like you are currently doing. I'm thinking it would involve the following:

    Setup work:

    1. Use Create Symbol to create a schematic symbol ("All Others" type) for the fuse holder. While creating this symbol, on the Specify Device ID step, place the tag mnemonic while the "Suppress Display of ID" check box is set. This will make the Device Properties dialog appear when placing the symbol but the device ID will not be displayed on the page. No graphics are necessary on this symbol. Insert an insertion point on the Specify Position step. Finish and save the symbol.
    2. Using Parts Database Manager, specify the new symbol in the Schematic_Symbol field of the fuse holder part numbers. This will make the part numbers appear with the default filter applied on the Select Part Number dialog when placing and assigning a part number to the new symbol.

    To use in the project:

    1. Insert the schematic symbol you typically use for the fuse and assign the fuse part number only.
    2. Insert the new fuse holder schematic symbol near the fuse symbol. On the Device Properties dialog assign the same device ID as the fuse. One good way to do this is to click the small button next to the Search button at the Device Tag field and then click the fuse symbol on the page. Click Search next to "Part Number" and assign the fuse holder part number to the fuse holder symbol.
    3. Repeat the steps above for the other fuses in the design.
    4. On the panel layout, select Insert Symbol By Device ID. Set the Group Settings as desired. Select the devices that are listed with fuse holder part numbers, do not select the devices with fuse part numbers. Click the Place Symbol button to place the symbols.

    Things to consider with this method:

    • If "Display duplicate ID cross-referencing" is enabled in Options > Project Options > Display Formats > Device Cross Reference, cross references between the schematic symbols for the fuse and fuse holder will appear on the page. You could disable "Display duplicate ID cross-referencing" or individually hide the cross references on the page by right-clicking them and de-selecting "Show Cross-Reference".
    • The fuse and fuse holder schematic symbols are not part of a family but should remain "linked" if you are careful. If you change the device ID of one of the symbols, you should be prompted with "Do you want to update all related symbols that share this Device ID?" Choose Yes.
    • If you have no graphics on the schematic fuse holder symbol, you can still get to the Device Properties and Select Part Number dialogs after the symbol is inserted by right-clicking the insertion point. Therefore you may not want to insert the symbol in the same exact position as another symbol's insertion point.



Reply
  • Yes, you could handle it that way. You may or may not think it is better than having to place the panel layout symbols individually like you are currently doing. I'm thinking it would involve the following:

    Setup work:

    1. Use Create Symbol to create a schematic symbol ("All Others" type) for the fuse holder. While creating this symbol, on the Specify Device ID step, place the tag mnemonic while the "Suppress Display of ID" check box is set. This will make the Device Properties dialog appear when placing the symbol but the device ID will not be displayed on the page. No graphics are necessary on this symbol. Insert an insertion point on the Specify Position step. Finish and save the symbol.
    2. Using Parts Database Manager, specify the new symbol in the Schematic_Symbol field of the fuse holder part numbers. This will make the part numbers appear with the default filter applied on the Select Part Number dialog when placing and assigning a part number to the new symbol.

    To use in the project:

    1. Insert the schematic symbol you typically use for the fuse and assign the fuse part number only.
    2. Insert the new fuse holder schematic symbol near the fuse symbol. On the Device Properties dialog assign the same device ID as the fuse. One good way to do this is to click the small button next to the Search button at the Device Tag field and then click the fuse symbol on the page. Click Search next to "Part Number" and assign the fuse holder part number to the fuse holder symbol.
    3. Repeat the steps above for the other fuses in the design.
    4. On the panel layout, select Insert Symbol By Device ID. Set the Group Settings as desired. Select the devices that are listed with fuse holder part numbers, do not select the devices with fuse part numbers. Click the Place Symbol button to place the symbols.

    Things to consider with this method:

    • If "Display duplicate ID cross-referencing" is enabled in Options > Project Options > Display Formats > Device Cross Reference, cross references between the schematic symbols for the fuse and fuse holder will appear on the page. You could disable "Display duplicate ID cross-referencing" or individually hide the cross references on the page by right-clicking them and de-selecting "Show Cross-Reference".
    • The fuse and fuse holder schematic symbols are not part of a family but should remain "linked" if you are careful. If you change the device ID of one of the symbols, you should be prompted with "Do you want to update all related symbols that share this Device ID?" Choose Yes.
    • If you have no graphics on the schematic fuse holder symbol, you can still get to the Device Properties and Select Part Number dialogs after the symbol is inserted by right-clicking the insertion point. Therefore you may not want to insert the symbol in the same exact position as another symbol's insertion point.



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